Externe

Omul cu Picioare foarte Paroase
2008-01-15 15:47:55

Asta e.. Propun tuturor pensionarilor care n-au bani de doctor, chirie, lumina, caldura, mancare sa

..mearga'n Austria, si sa-si alinieze opiniile cu Sylvia Stolz,, Frohlich si Irving...cu zarva mare in Prater....

Zenn
2008-01-15 15:58:11

Re: Asta e.. Propun tuturor pensionarilor care n-au bani de doctor, chirie, lumina, caldura, mancare sa

Adevarul n-a fost niciodata strivit cu catuse.

P.S. Nu stiu cum, dar evenimente d-astea ma duc cu mintea la perioada ceausista...hmmm!.



La 2008-01-15 15:47:55, Omul cu Picioare foarte Paroase a scris:

> ..mearga'n Austria, si sa-si alinieze opiniile cu Sylvia Stolz,,
> Frohlich si Irving...cu zarva mare in Prater....
>

itzic
2008-01-15 17:50:27

Re: Asta e.. Propun tuturor pensionarilor care n-au bani de doctor, chirie, lumina, caldura, mancare sa

La 2008-01-15 15:58:11, Zenn a scris:

> Adevarul n-a fost niciodata strivit cu catuse.

Pai tocmai, ca in cazul de fata catusele sunt menite sa striveasca minciuna negationista, nu adevarul.

Zenn
2008-01-15 19:37:16

Re: Asta e.. Propun tuturor pensionarilor care n-au bani de doctor, chirie, lumina, caldura, mancare sa

Adevarul de care vorbesti, n-a fost niciodata demonstrat. Si toate tentativele de a-l demonstra sant intampinate cu catuse. Nu te-ntrebi de ce? E ceva putred in Danemarca.



La 2008-01-15 17:50:27, itzic a scris:

> Pai tocmai, ca in cazul de fata catusele sunt menite sa striveasca
> minciuna negationista, nu adevarul.
>
>

Sikozu
2008-01-15 20:46:37

lege stupida

O adevarata rusine pentru civilizatia vest-europeana.

Libertatea de opinie? Ce gluma buna!

Atunci cand au aparut desenele cu Mohammed, toata Europa striga pentru libertatea de opinie. Ipocrizie maxima.

Condamnarea actiunilor neo-naziste, DA! Insa nu condamnarea la inchisoare pentru o opinie. Adevarul nu poate fi demolat de opinia unor lunatici. Probele care ne arata clar ce s-a intamplat in perioada nazista sunt foarte clare. Nu inteleg de ce aceasta frica?

Nu vad pe nimeni in puscarie pentru ca neaga genocidul vest-european in Africa si Americi. De ce sa fie diferit pentru un alt genocid?

Zenn
2008-01-15 21:54:58

Re: lege stupida

Buna intrebare...Da' ...daca, totusi, n-a fost chiar asa? Sa nu uitam ca la inceputul anilor 1990, placa comemorativa de la Auschwitz a fost schimbata, unde, cifra initila de peste 6 mil de evrei morti in lagar, a devenit deodata 2.5 mil.
O mica mare diferenta., nu!?



La 2008-01-15 20:46:37, Sikozu a scris:

De ce sa fie diferit pentru un alt genocid?

hefaistos
2008-01-15 22:34:07

In numele holocaustului

Sunt tot mai multe voci care afirma faptul ca holocaustul este cea mai mare minciuna cu care este astazi intoxicata omenirea . Ies in ultimul timp la iveala
tot mai multe dovezi care vin sa demonstreze acest fapt . Cum minciuna teribila este faptul ca maresalul Antonescu a fost catalogat drept criminal de razboi , cind se stie clar ca Romania a fost colacul de salvare al evreimii evreimii din Europa Centrala si de Est
in vremea celui De-al doile razboi mondial.

Mario
2008-01-15 22:57:29

Foarte bine-asa merita toti negationistii. Dar pe cand si arestari facute

asupra celor care neaga Holocaustul facut de americani asupra bietilor irakieni (si viitorul Holocaust asupra iranienilor)?

Florin Croitoru
2008-01-15 23:14:24

ce frumos o-ntoarce Itzic!!

George-Felix
2008-01-15 23:57:54

Re: In numele holocaustului

La 2008-01-15 22:34:07, hefaistos a scris:

> Cum minciuna
> teribila este faptul ca maresalul Antonescu a fost catalogat drept
> criminal de razboi , cind se stie clar ca Romania a fost colacul de
> salvare al evreimii evreimii din Europa Centrala si de Est
> in vremea celui De-al doile razboi mondial.

Cred ca soldatii rusi care au murit la Stalingrad de gloante romanesti impartasesc aceasta opinie, nu-i asa?

Felix

Sikozu
2008-01-16 00:15:12

Re: ce frumos o-ntoarce Itzic!!

vlad_tzepesch
2008-01-16 00:18:12

Cenzura nu merge...

Cu cit libertatea cuvintului va fi mai mult suprimata, cu atit oamenii se vor intreba "Oare de ce?", sau "Cine omoara cuvintul si de ce?".
Si rezultatul va fi un samizdat modern, de data asta in EUSSR asa cum era in USSR nu demult.
Numai citeva idei....

Ereticul
2008-01-16 00:55:37

Noua inchizitie ...

Acum cateva sute de ani era un adevar incontestabil faptul ca pamantul e plat - daca afirmai contrarul, te alegeai cu arderea pe rug. Legiuitorii zilelor noastre se pare ca sunt mai blanzi ...

contele
2008-01-16 00:59:10

Libertate de exprimare

Poti sa injuri presedeintele unei tari dar sa spui ceva despre holocaust ajungi la zdup. Parca e inchizitia lui Ceasusescu care era gata sa faca orice pentru PCR. In Austria nu ai dreptul sa spui o parere.

Hider nu a fost prost.

Ereticul
2008-01-16 00:59:20

pt. dl. Sikozu

Nu cumva se potriveste "certitudinea" holocau$tului cu expresia "numai prostii n-au dubii"?

Ereticul
2008-01-16 01:01:34

Re: Libertate de exprimare

Din pacate legi asemanatoare au fost introduse pe sest in majoritatea tarilor europene, inclusiv in Romania ...

Ereticul
2008-01-16 01:04:34

pt. dl. itzic

Negationismul de care vorbiti este adevarul. Numai minciunile sunt impuse "cu pumnul in gura", dar s-a dovedit in multe cazuri ca impunerea nu rezista prea mult timp ...

nelu
2008-01-16 02:16:44

Re: lege stupida

Tocmai pentru faptul ca cetazeni ca Zen care cred in minciunile expuse sunt capabili sa ajunga la aceiasi concluzie si in anumite cazuri si la fapte asemanatoare cu cele comise de NS .



La 2008-01-15 20:46:37, Sikozu a scris:

> O adevarata rusine pentru civilizatia vest-europeana.
>
> Libertatea de opinie? Ce gluma buna!
>
> Atunci cand au aparut desenele cu Mohammed, toata Europa striga pentru
> libertatea de opinie. Ipocrizie maxima.
>
> Condamnarea actiunilor neo-naziste, DA! Insa nu condamnarea la
> inchisoare pentru o opinie. Adevarul nu poate fi demolat de opinia
> unor lunatici. Probele care ne arata clar ce s-a intamplat in perioada
> nazista sunt foarte clare. Nu inteleg de ce aceasta frica?
>
> Nu vad pe nimeni in puscarie pentru ca neaga genocidul vest-european
> in Africa si Americi. De ce sa fie diferit pentru un alt genocid?
>

laur
2008-01-16 06:23:25

Pana nu va arde pe voi oare va pasa ?

jan dinu
2008-01-16 07:06:03

Re: Pana nu va arde pe voi oare va pasa ?

amy
2008-01-16 09:40:12

lui florin croitoru!

in auschwitz !!!!!!!!!!!!! au pierit 2,5 milioane ,circa.evrei si neevrei!
in total au murit !!! 60de milioane de oameni in al 2lea razboi mondial.
22milioane rusi,6 milioane evrei.etc
dc nu crezi mai intra si tu la o biblioteca sau mai multe si citeste!!!!!!!!!!!!!
e usor a scrie cand nu sti NIMICA !

amy
2008-01-16 09:48:44

lui itzik !

mai incultule :) daca ai fi musulman,poate esti,si ai scrie despre muhamad sau husein,asa cum incerci sa ridiculizezi,ai fi acuma pe lista neagra a musulmanilor,cel putin!
daca ti bati joc de religia ta iudeo-crestina nu patesti nimica.
dece sa nu treci la religia ,pura? cea musulmana???acolo ti este locul exact!

amy
2008-01-16 10:21:42

pt zen

ei zen....in danemarka este ceva putred :)
asta a fost buna.as rade daca n-ar fi trist.ca in anul 2008 exista stupizi,mincinosi,nestiutori ca si tine!:(

Ereticul
2008-01-16 10:56:15

Re: lui florin croitoru!

Daca tot va pricepeti atat de bine la cifre poate ne indicati si o sursa credibila si preferabil obiectiva pe care va bazati afirmatiile. Si daca vreti sa ne dati un tablou complet, vorbiti putin si despre sumele incasate de israel drept despagubiri ...
Ce credeti, titlul cartii evreului Norman Finkelstein - "Industria holocaustului" - e justificat?

coscaru
2008-01-16 11:08:06

sa inteleg ca nu mai ai voie la o parere in Austria si Germania?

aceste dictaturi (asa au fost si sunt) tin poporul German sub bocanc. de asta ii vezi crispati peste tot ei nu stiu sa rada sa se distreze. sistemul (dictatura) ii supravegheaza . in Germania daca ai firma te AUTODENUNTI si platesti o amenda de 10.000 euro la un control .nu militeanul sa controleze si sa te dea in judecata daca are dreptate -nu te autodenunti ca sa scape basma curata (FISCUL) asta este sistemul German -asta vrem noi in Romania ? dictatura URSS III ?

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 11:17:31

Re: Birjarule...

In placa comemorativa de la Auschwitz scrie ca acolo au fost ucisi 1.5 mil de evrei. 6 mil. e numarul total al celor ucisi in Europa, nu numai la Auschwitz.

La 2008-01-15 21:54:58, Zenn a scris:

> Buna intrebare...Da' ...daca, totusi, n-a fost chiar asa? Sa nu uitam
> ca la inceputul anilor 1990, placa comemorativa de la Auschwitz a fost
> schimbata, unde, cifra initila de peste 6 mil de evrei morti in lagar,
> a devenit deodata 2.5 mil.
> O mica mare diferenta., nu!?
>
>

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 11:26:28

Re: In numele holocaustului

Ca Antonescu a fost criminal de razboi e un fapt foarte cunoscut, a trimis la moarte in Transnistria pe sutele de mii de evrei din Bucovina , Basarabia si Ucraina.

> La 2008-01-15 22:34:07, hefaistos a scris:
>
> > Cum minciuna
> > teribila este faptul ca maresalul Antonescu a fost catalogat drept
> > criminal de razboi , cind se stie clar ca Romania a fost colacul de
> > salvare al evreimii evreimii din Europa Centrala si de Est
> > in vremea celui De-al doile razboi mondial.
>>
>
>
>

Seherezada
2008-01-16 11:37:08

Dahrlings ... ! Nu va mai chwzerthati ! ... doar in AUSTRIA ...

doar in AUSTRIA ... un holocaust denier este luat cu japka si inchis ...
DE AIA se si inghesuie acolo toti ``holo-deniers``, ca doar asa isi mai fac si ei nitzica reclama, mai apar la ziar, mai stirnesc o furtuna forumistica ...

bogdanmate
2008-01-16 11:38:58

Libertate

Asemenea incarcerari pentru libertatea de gandire nu fac decat sa starneasca si mai mult dezbaterile si contestarile la adresa versiunii oficiale ale holocaustului. E contraproductiv sa le inchizi gura prin forta unor Irvind sau Stolz.

Seherezada
2008-01-16 11:40:29

si, sper ca intelegeti de ce ... ca biata Austria nu stie cum sa se mai spele de

pacatul ca l-a produs pe Hitler ... acuma sufla si in iaurtul format de aceste figuri patetice ...


La 2008-01-16 11:37:08, Seherezada a scris:

> doar in AUSTRIA ... un holocaust denier este luat cu japka si inchis
> ...
> DE AIA se si inghesuie acolo toti ``holo-deniers``, ca doar asa isi
> mai fac si ei nitzica reclama, mai apar la ziar, mai stirnesc o
> furtuna forumistica ...
>
>

Seherezada
2008-01-16 11:54:30

update despre Irving, dovedit ``masluitor``, si mare Holocaust denier ...

La 2008-01-16 11:38:58, bogdanmate a scris:

> Asemenea incarcerari pentru libertatea de gandire nu fac decat sa
> starneasca si mai mult dezbaterile si contestarile la adresa versiunii
> oficiale ale holocaustului. E contraproductiv sa le inchizi gura prin
> forta unor Irvind sau Stolz.
> --------------

In 2006, Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of denying the Holocaust in Austria, where Holocaust denial is a crime and where an arrest warrant was issued based on speeches he made in 1989.
Irving knew that the warrant had been issued and that he was banned from Austria, but chose to go to Austria anyway.

(precum zisei, Austria ``cel mai vizibil spot``, ... s-a dus special sa fie arestat )

After he was arrested, Irving claimed in his plea that he changed his opinions on the Holocaust, ... <<I said that then based on my knowledge at the time, but by 1991 when I came across the Eichmann papers, I wasn`t saying that anymore and I wouldn`t say that now,>> Irving told the court ... <<The Nazis did murder millions of Jews.>>

On 21 December 2006, Irving was technically ``expelled`` from Austria ...
he was banned from ever setting foot in that country again....

Seherezada
2008-01-16 12:02:57

Jean-Claude Pressac (1944-2003) ... was originally a Holocaust denier ...

<<Pressac was originally a Holocaust denier who, with Robert Faurisson, attempted to disprove what he considered historically inaccurate depictions of the concentration camps Auschwitz and Birkenau as extermination camps.

Upon visiting Auschwitz , however, Pressac was able to view first-hand the extensive archive of construction documents which had survived due to being located in the construction office rather than the administrative offices.

These convinced him that his former views were in error, an event he describes in the postface of ``Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers``,

saying that he ``nearly did away with myself one evening in October 1979 in the main camp, the Stammlager, overwhelmed by the evidence and by despair``.

He published his conclusions along with much of the underlying evidence in his 1989 book, ``Auschwitz: Technique and operation of the gas chambers`` .

In his 1993 ``Les Crematoires d`Auschwitz`` , he further delineated the operation of the crematoria at Auschwitz, and their integration into the larger Nazi program to eradicate the Jews of Europe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Pressac

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:16:31

Raluca Moldovan 1

"The alleged Hitlerian gas chambers and the alleged genocide of the Jews form one and the same historical lie, which permitted a gigantic financial swindle whose chief beneficiaries have been the State of Israel and international Zionism, and whose main victims have been the German people and the Palestinian people as a whole".

One might think that this kind of statement is the work of a completely twisted mind and that any man with a shred of common sense would dismiss it from the very start. But, unfortunately and ironically enough, this is just one example among many such statements that form the bases of what is now commonly known as the phenomenon of Holocaust denial. The worst part of all is that this phenomenon, far from being just a fringe school of thought, has gained significant ground, especially in the last two decades, and has entered common conscience, finding for itself quite a number of followers. Holocaust denial has become an accepted, if not quite respected, historical assertion and it has generated realms of "well-founded historical literature".

Holocaust denial emerged immediately after World War II, especially in the United States, as an isolated phenomenon with little or no credibility, but it has come a long way since then. Nowadays, traces of Holocaust denial and overt anti-Semitism can be found in the United Sates as well as throughout Europe and the Middle East and even as far away as Australia.

The explanations for the spreading and influence of this "growing assault on truth and memory" are many and diverse. In the following paragraphs, I will try to outline the essence of this phenomenon, to present its perpetrators and to review some of the most important reactions against it.

The Holocaust is one of those historical facts with a very enduring life: nowadays, almost half a century later, it has lost little of its striking impact upon the memory of mankind. Newspapers, magazines, publishing houses, and research institutes regularly print articles, books, and studies centered upon different aspects directly referring to or merely related to the Holocaust. On the other hand, there are almost just as many newspapers, magazines, publishing houses and institutes that regularly publish materials on Holocaust denial, which points out that there certainly is an audience ready to read and to accept the claims made by the authors of these materials, the self-proclaimed "historical revisionists". The ground on which the seeds of this denial are planted seems very fertile, and the more public the debate about it, the more people are likely to be caught up in the denial movement.

One of the most well-known and controversial public debates about Holocaust denial was generated by the recent suit brought by the freelance historian David Irving, probably the most prominent figure of Holocaust denial. David Irving sued Professor Deborah Lipstadt for libel, claiming that the assertions she made in her book, Denying the Holocaust, were extremely offensive to him. The trial gripped the attention of both the British and the American media for many months, and the testimony given by David Irving horrified both the judges and the audience. The mere fact that such persons are taken seriously by so many people worldwide is extremely alarming, because it only shows us how vulnerable public opinion is when the instruments of manipulation are carefully orchestrated.

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:17:31

Re: Raluca Moldovan 2

Ignorance is the deniers' first ally in their mission to distort history, and the higher the level of ignorance, the more dangerous the effects of the denials are. In this respect, one example is very relevant.4 In April 1993, in conjunction with the opening of the U.S. Holocaust Museum, the Roper Organization conducted a survey meant to determine the extent of Americans' knowledge of the phenomenon. The results expected by the organization and the American Jewish Committee were not at all startling. However, the answer to one of the question they initially wanted to eliminate from the questionnaire was more than shocking: when asked "do you think it possible or impossible that the Holocaust did not happen: 22% of American adults and 20% of American high school students replied that it was possible. This answer shows that Holocaust denial is not just an eerie phenomenon with no more credibility to it than the assertion that the Earth is flat.

Under such circumstances, one should not be amazed at the growing force of Holocaust denial and at the fact that its very existence is now being questioned in talk shows on national television.

Deborah Lipstadt's book, Denying the Holocaust the Growing Assault on Truth and Memory, is the best to-date account of Holocaust denial. It presents chronologically and clearly the roots of the phenomenon, the institutions and people involved in the practice of denial, and their main works and arguments. The author tries to summarize the deniers' most frequent claims (she identifies five major themes for research in the field of denial: the absence of a single master plan for the annihilation of the Jewish people; the absence of gas chambers used for mass murder at Auschwitz and other camps; the fact that the testimonies of the survivors are given so much credibility because there is no objective documentation to prove the Nazi genocide; the absence of a total loss of Jewish lives between 1941 and 1945; the "mock trial" character of the Nuremberg trials, staged for the benefit of the Jews). She also tries to find explanations for the proliferation of denial literature, especially in the last two decades. The main argument that she brings is that the denial stirrings are closely connected with the neo-Nazi ideology and the rise of the radical right in politics. The evolution of West European politics, especially in the last ten years, has pointed out elements that show a return to the anti-Semitic language and attitudes common more than half a century ago. However, the anti-Semitism of the 1990s encompasses new elements and new ideas that feed the anti-Jewish feeling that has always existed in Europe. Neo-Nazism and the new radical right rely on Holocaust denial in order to obtain legitimacy and recognition in the political arena. Jean Marie le Pen, Jorg Haider, and Pim Fortuyn, are some of the western politicians who have played the card of anti-Semitism and have enjoyed considerable success. The fact that these people come from countries other than Germany (where the appearance of such ideas could seem more natural) shows that European anti-Semitism is far from extinct. Actually, the issue of an anti-Semitic Europe has received extensive coverage from prestigious magazines such as Time: "a Boston newspaper blared Kristallnacht Returns and declared, `not since the Third Reich has there been anything like it." In response to anxious enquiries, the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles issued an advisory warning Jews "to exercise extreme caution while traveling to France and Belgium."9 However, this does not mean that there is no anti-Semitism in Germany or in other parts of Europe. Actually, the region that has shown itself most prone to fall prey to deniers' ideas in the past ten years is post-Communist East Central Europe, where the political and social atmosphere have been favorable to the development of such ideas that I will present later on.

Ereticul
2008-01-16 12:18:05

Re: update despre Irving, dovedit ``masluitor``, si mare Holocaust denier ...

"In 2006, Irving pleaded guilty to the charge of denying the Holocaust in Austria"

E pur si muove ...

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:18:24

Re: Raluca Moldovan 3

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:19:09

Re: Raluca Moldovan 3

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:20:00

Re: Raluca Moldovan 5

The late 1970s and the early 1980s saw the establishment of a well-organized school of Holocaust denial, especially in the United Sates, which had become the place with the most flourishing denial literature and where many European deniers came to publish their works. Until that period, Holocaust denial in the U.S. had been primarily the province of fringe, racist and extremist groups who had found some support in a number of seemingly respectable circles. The inventiveness of the deniers found new arguments, the most quoted of them being the one according to which out of the 5 million Jews living in the United States, about 90% of them were European Jews who had allegedly died in the Holocaust, but who were safe and sound and living on money paid by the German and American taxpayers. Harry Elmer Barnes, whom I have already mentioned, contributed significantly to the shaping of the new denial ideology, publishing some rather influential works such as The Struggle Against the Historical Blackout, in which he expresses his strong belief that Germany was in no way responsible either for the outbreak of World War II or for the atrocities it had been accused of. Barnes also praised Paul Rassiner for his great contribution to the emergence of the truth concealed by the Jewish politicians: "this courageous author lays the chief blame for misrepresentation on those whom we must call the swindlers of the crematoria, the Israeli politicians who derive billions of marks from nonexistent, mythical and imaginary cadavers, whose numbers have been reckoned in an unusually distorted and dishonest manner". Thus, Barnes paved the way for the claims of the American "guru of Holocaust denial", Austin J. App. A professor of English at the University of Scranton and LaSalle College, App, just like Barnes, was mainly concerned to lift the moral burden of the atrocities charge from the shoulders of a defeated and divided Germany. App was known for being an ardent defender of Nazi Germany. App's major contribution was the formulation of eight undeniable axioms that have become the fundaments of the denial theory, included in his suggestively entitled book, The Six Million Swindle: Blackmailing the German People for Hard Marks with Fabricated Corpses.(1973) App's main preoccupation was that of dismissing the figure of six million as a "smear terrorizing myth", claiming that there was not a single "order, document or blueprint that proved that the Nazis intended to annihilate the Jews". He offered a strange argument to prove his point: the fact the some Jews had survived constituted proof that none were killed. He also argued that Nazi Germany was so efficient that no Jew could have escaped if the Nazis had indeed intended to destroy all Jews. Consequently, the Holocaust was a hoax perpetrated by the Jews and communists alike.
His famous eight axioms are worth quoting, because they prove just how far the deniers are willing to go just to prove their twisted arguments:

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:21:07

Re: Raluca Moldovan 6

"1. Emigration, never annihilation, was the Reich's plan for solving Germany's Jewish problem. Had Germany intended to annihilate all the Jews, a half million concentration camp inmates would not have survived and managed to come to Israel where they collect "fancy indemnities" from West Germany.

2. Absolutely no Jews were gassed in any concentration camps in Germany and evidence is piling up that none were gassed in Auschwitz. The Hitler gas chambers never existed. The gas installations found in Auschwitz were really crematoria for cremating corpses of those who had died from a variety of causes, including the genocidal Anglo-American bombing raids"

3. The majority of Jews who disappeared and remained unaccounted for did so in territories under Soviet, not German control.

4. The majority of Jews who supposedly died while in German camps were in fact subversive partisans,
spies, saboteurs and criminals or victims of unfortunate but internationally legal reprisals.

5. If there existed the slightest likelihood that the Nazis had really murdered six million Jews, "world Jewry" would demand subsidies to conduct research on the topic and Israel would open its archives to historians. They had not done so. Instead, they have persecuted and branded as an anti-Semite anyone who wished to publicize the hoax. This persecution constitutes the most conclusive evidence that this figure is a swindle.

6. The Jews and the media who exploit this figure have failed to offer even a shred of evidence to prove it. The Jews misquote Eichmann and other Nazis in order to try and substantiate their claims.

7. It is the accusers, not the accused, who must provide the burden of proof to substantiate the six million figure, the Talmudists and Bolsheviks have so browbeaten the Germans that they pay billions and do not dare to demand proof.

8. The fact that Jewish scholars themselves have "ridiculous" discrepancies in their calculations of the number of victims constitutes firm evidence that there is no scientific proof to this accusation".

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:22:17

Re: Raluca Moldovan 7

evreu mandru din israel
2008-01-16 12:22:44

Re: Raluca Moldovan 8

Ereticul
2008-01-16 12:32:27

Strict la subiect

Propun sa facem abstractie de tema "a fost sau n-a fost" si sa dezbatem ideea normalitatii unei legi care sa pedepseasca un punct de vedere, indiferent cat de corect sau gresit este.
Ma intereseaza in special parerile colegilor de forum evrei, beneficiarii directi ai acestei legi.

Ereticul
2008-01-16 12:45:28

Re: Raluca Moldovan 8

"The debate about the holocaust is still in full swing" - numai ca uneia din taberele participante la dezbatere i s-a bagat (prin legi) pumnul in gura, iar in cazul in care ar castiga dezbaterea (ceea ce s-a si intamplat de cateva ori) premiul ar fi cativa ani buni de inchisoare ...

Ereticul
2008-01-16 12:49:09

Re: In numele holocaustului

"Ca Antonescu a fost criminal de razboi e un fapt foarte cunoscut" - un fapt si mai cunoscut: despagubirile nejustificat de mari incasate in numele presupuselor victime ...

autentic
2008-01-16 12:59:26

Mai cugeta ...

E greu de crezut ca un deputat austriac poate sa militeze pentru ceva altundeva decat in Austria ... mai apoi, asta era si ideea: sa se renunte le acea prevedere legala care interzice punerea in discutie a Holocaustului ... in plus, de ce revizionistii nu au voie sa isi faca reclama? De fapt, asta vor: sa spuna altora ce au descoperit ei ... sa aduca in atentia populatiei o minciuna care dureaza de zeci de ani ... se folosesc si ei de mijloacele pe care la au la dispozitie. Si foarte bine fac: ca sa iti infrangi dusmanii trebuie sa folosesti mijloacele lor. Evreii mint. Sau, cel putin, rezultatele unor cercetari arata ca mint. Deci, e nevoie de o dezbatere publica, bazata pe argumente de bun simt si stiintifice. Asta fac unii revizionisti. Ce le putem reprosa? Ca nu tac si nu pun capul in piept? Eu nu sunt convins ca revizionistii au dreptate, dar sunt sigur ca evreii au exagerat mult. Sa discutam. Sa vedem unde ajungem. Daca se va dovedi ca unii au dreptate, le dam dreptate si cu asta basta. De ce este nevoie de legi impotriva revizionistilor? Un adevar istoric si/sau stiintific se apara singur, nu are nevoie de jandarmi. E foarte simplu: daca cineva spune acum ca nu au existat gladiatori in Roma antica, nu il baga nimeni in seama. Este dovedit ca au existat, este o teza credibila si acceptabila. Sunt documente care o sustin. Cine neaga este considerat naiv sau de-a dreptul incult. Daca la fel este Holocaustul, de ce este nevoie de arestari? Daca evreii sunt sensibili la asa ceva ar trebui sa isi construiasca o aparare serioasa, nu sa bage oameni in puscarie sau sa fie de acord cu asa ceva. Pe revizionisti nu ar trebui sa ii bage nimeni in seama daca sunt doar niste ametiti. Constat, insa, ca din ce in ce mai multi oameni se indoiesc de credibilitatea argumentelor celor care sustin Holocaustul. Prin urmare, draga Seherezada, care este nemultumirea ta?

autentic
2008-01-16 13:01:44

Inca o replica ...

De ce nu te referi si la filmul lui David Cole despre lagarul de la Auschwitz?

Ereticul
2008-01-16 13:07:04

pt. dna Seherezada

Citez: "doar in AUSTRIA ... un holocaust denier este luat cu japka si inchis "
Aveti aici un link cu o lista a celor care au avut de suferit pentru opiniile lor in mult mai multe tari, opinii rasplatite cu inchisoarea si in Olanda, Suedia, Franta, Anglia si Canada ...
http://www.zundelsite.org/english/debate/victims/index.html

Ereticul
2008-01-16 13:08:53

Re: Inca o replica ...

> De ce nu te referi si la filmul lui David Cole despre lagarul de la
> Auschwitz?
>

Sau la filmul "Judea declares war on Germany" al dr. Toben?

amy
2008-01-16 13:10:54

Re: Strict la subiect

SUNT FOARTE CURIOS SA AUD ;"ce beneficiaza evreii" ??????????
dc e ceva misto iti doresc sa beneficiezi tu in locul lor!ce zici?fair?cred ca da!
sanatate!

Ereticul
2008-01-16 13:11:58

Re: Birjarule...

Cifra de 6 milioane e compusa din nr. victimelor de la Auschwitz + restul. Daca la Auschwitz a scazut de la 4,5 mil (in 1946) la 1,5 mil (in prezent) nu credeti ca si totalul ar trebui sa scada?