Externe

au suferit Armenii. Genocidul a fost provocat de miscarea "Tanarul turc", infiintata de Kemal Attaturk, baiatul unei familii de evrei din Turcia, ajuns general si intemeietorul statului Turc modern.

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocidefaq.html

La 2008-04-24 17:32:35, Uliu_Roman a scris:

> au suferit Armenii.
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CORECT ...
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>
> Genocidul a fost provocat de miscarea
> "Tanarul turc",
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CORRECT ...
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> infiintata de Kemal Attaturk, baiatul unei familii de
> evrei din Turcia, ajuns general si intemeietorul statului Turc
> modern.
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ZBIRCA ...
Nu ca as avea ceva impotriva sa fi fost evreu, ... insa Kemal era fiul lui Ali Rıza Efendi (albanez sau turc) si Zubeyde Hanım (o turcoica religioasa muslima) ...

Turcii al adora pe Kemal pina si azi ,
<<So who was Mustafa Kemal Ataturk? The Turks (who adore him and place his picture in nearly every shop and his statue in every city), as well as many foreigners hold him up as a hero who saved his country,>>

iar Armenii ii reproseaza ca a continuat genocidul inceput de otomani ...
<<the Armenians, consider him a ruthless general who continued the genocide begun by the Ottomans.>>

ZBIRCA ...
Insa nici macar Armenii nu il considera un criminal sau un suporter al genocidului ...
<<However, Ataturk was not a mass murderer or supporter of genocide. Armenians` principle accusation is that he was responsible for a giant fire that destroyed much of Smyrna when he captured the city from the Greeks during the War of Independence, but in truth, the source of the fire has not been conclusively proven, with both sides blaming the other. Individual Turkish soldiers did most definitely commit war crimes during the course of the war, and of course the non-Turkish populations fleeing the war as refugees suffered many troubles, but Ataturk definitely did not order any organized attempts at genocide.>>

http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b2ataturkkemal.htm

Ben-Avi describes two meetings with Mustafa Kemal, who had not yet taken the name of Ataturk, 'Father of the Turks.' Both were conducted in French, were largely devoted to Ottoman politics, and were doused with large amounts of arrack. In the first of these, Kemal confided: "I'm a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi - not indeed a Jew any more, but an ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every Jew in this country would do well to join his camp."

During their second meeting, held 10 days later in the same hotel, Mustafa Kemal said at one point:" 'I have at home a Hebrew Bible printed in Venice. It's rather old, and I remember my father bringing me to a Karaite teacher who taught me to read it. I can still remember a few words of it, such as --' " And Ben-Avi continues: "He paused for a moment, his eyes searching for something in space. Then he recalled: "'Shema Yisra'el, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehad!'

"'That's our most important prayer, Captain.'

"'And my secret prayer too, cher monsieur,' he replied, refilling our glasses."







http://isteve.blogspot.com/2006/06/was-mustafa-kemal-ataturk-founder-of.html

La 2008-04-24 23:42:23, Uliu_Roman a scris:

> Kemal confided:
> "I'm a descendant of Sabbetai Zevi - not indeed a Jew any more, but an
> ardent admirer of this prophet of yours. My opinion is that every Jew
> in this country would do well to join his camp."
>
> "'And my secret prayer too, cher monsieur,' he replied, refilling our
> glasses."
>
---------------
bon, astea`s legende cu messiah, ... multi sint fascinati de judaism si se viseaza descendenti de triburi crypto-jews ... ,

insa, mai ales daca asa o fi ...
asta ar fi un argument CONTRA implicarii lui Ataturk in genocidul armenilor ...
intelegi, Uliuliule ??

O greseala (sau minciuna) in ceea ce spui face ca tot ce zici sa fie pus sub semnul intrebarii.
Sa improsti cu noroi pe Mustafa Kemal Ataturk ma face sa cred ca habar nu ai de ceea ce iti iese din gura (sau crezi primul articol citit de pe net).
Prea multi isi dau cu parerea despre chestii pe care nu le cunosc si nici nu vor sa le studieze.

La 2008-04-25 09:21:30, Dan Petre a scris:

> O greseala (sau minciuna) in ceea ce spui face ca tot ce zici sa fie
> pus sub semnul intrebarii.
-------------
tu cu cine vorbesti ?

La 2008-04-25 12:31:34, Seherezada a scris:

> La 2008-04-25 09:21:30, Dan Petre a scris:
>
> > O greseala (sau minciuna) in ceea ce spui face ca tot ce zici sa fie
> > pus sub semnul intrebarii.
> -------------
> tu cu cine vorbesti ?
>
Cu Uliu. El il acuza pe Ataturk ca ar fi evreu (de parca ar fi ceva rau sau ar avea o relevanta). Plus ca ii acuza pe junii turci (printre care Ataturk s-a numarat pt scurt timp si in nici un caz nu a fost infiintata de el) de genocid. Dupa incheierea razboiului de independenta al Turciei (sic!) unii dintre junii turci au fost arestati de britanici, dusi in Malta si interogati in privinta genocidului. Au fost eliberati fara proces dupa 2 ani de detentie.
Degeaba discutam noi despre tristele evenimente (care au inceput la sfirsitul secolului 19 si nu vad cum se poate zice ca genocidul a inceput intr-o anumita zi).
Singurii care pot restabili adevarul sint turcii impreuna cu armenii. Franta invinovateste Turcia dar a fost implicata in acel conflict si poarta parte din vina.