Actualitate

spaiu'
2009-04-30 21:33:45

Ia auziti acilea!

Baietii au scapat pasarica: Cica virusul are caractere ale virusului gripei umane, aviare si porcine, in acelasi timp. Io pun o problema statistica: Care e probabilitatea ca aceste trei tulpini sa se combine...natural? Au incercat baietii de FBI vreo descindere in laboratoarele producatorilor de farmaceutice, sau le e frica de ce pot gasi?
Cat despre chestia cu al Qaeda...stim ca ei sunt vinovatii de serviciu!

Anca2008
2009-04-30 21:41:25

nah.. asta e bull..

adica daca tot veni vorba de conspiratie, macar sa fie in folosul tatucilor. Nu poate fi 'Al Quaida' la mijloc pentru simplul motiv ca Al Quaida nu exista. In orice caz, nu in felul in care se vintura ideea despre ea prin ziare. Al Quaida e un front group pentru serviciile secrete ale marilor puteri care initiaza atentate acolo unde le convine.
Si pentru ca Roy & comp. vor cere dovezi, iata ce spune fostul ministru de externe britanic, Robin Cook:

Anca2008
2009-04-30 21:44:03

Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says:

The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US. Cook has previously written:

Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".

And see this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary entitled "The Power of Nightmares", which shows that the threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on the people within the U.S. who are behind the hype).

Not only has the U.S. government hyped Al Qaeda, but it has issued numerous fake terror alerts to scare people.

There is a word for intentionally creating fear in order to manipulate opinion for political ends: terrorism.

Pyrrhon
2009-04-30 21:46:50

al-qaeda are oare capacitatea sa produca asa-ceva?

Are laboratoare, aparatura performanta, cercetatori specialisti in microbiologie, genetica etc?
Astia pot sa faca bombe artizanale din dinamita si cam atat.

Evreu-rus
2009-04-30 22:10:03

Al-Qaeda, tapul ispasitor scos la inaintare de fiecare data cand americanii fac prostii

Al Qaida este o creatie a serviciilor secrete americane (Osama Ben Laden, care este mort de mult timp, dupa cum pana si pres. Pakistanului Asif Ali Zardari a afirmat, a fost "tatal" de imprumut al celebrei organizatii). In lumea araba Al Qaida semnifica baza de date (parca predestinat). A fost fondata in 1988 de serviciile secrete americane, pakistaneze si saudite, in scopul de a lupta mai abitir impotriva armatei sovietice, prin recrutarea intr-o organizatie pan-islamica a tinerilor musulmani dornici de sacrificiu, si cu ajutorul armelor provenind de la americani.
Dupa sfarsitul conflictului, acesti "luptatori ptr libertate" au devenit disponibili pentru alte misiuni, exact acolo unde interese americane sunt in joc. Osama Ben Laden si organizatia pe care a condus-o nu au fost decat brate inarmate si extrem de eficace cu care CIA isi face treburile murdare.

Zold Janos
2009-04-30 22:39:47

Cu ceva timp in urma...

... am auzit la radio, prezenta unu cica o carte... (in Canada). Autorul prezenta o lista oficiala a cercetarilor ce aveau loc in SUA. Le-a sarit in ochi printre altele un proiect care dorea sa faca leucemia transmisibila prin aer (airborn). Comentatorul a observat, ca daca asta era pe lista oficiala, ce exista pe cea ne-oficiala!
Nu va pune pe ginduri?

Ghita Bizonu'
2009-04-30 22:59:13

My Sheet carle in american se cheam bullsheet !! Ar vrea ei sa poata !!

Asa cum a zis-o si Pyrrhon necesitatile de "productie" sunt prea mari,.
Inafara de laboratoare mai trebe si specialisti Ori chisitii ptr droguri nu-s de ajuns .
Si suntm "marfuri" ptr care banii nu ajung !]
Un specialist in asa ceva nu s-ar baga intr-un laborator care sa nu-i garanteze securitatea .... iar respectivii comandiotari presupusi is cam .. tembeli .
Asa ca propun o imbunatire a schemei presupuse - aia au dat banii si niste laboratoare gubernamantale au7 excutat ...
cate laboaratoare valabile mai exista in lume ?!!

Paul din Ohio
2009-04-30 23:13:37

Re: Cu ceva timp in urma...Si tu Janos?

Eu cred ca in Canada este un alt virus "airborn": cel care provoaca ura impotriva Americii. Ce e cu voi? La 2009-04-30 22:39:47, Zold Janos a scris:

> ... am auzit la radio, prezenta unu cica o carte... (in Canada).
> Autorul prezenta o lista oficiala a cercetarilor ce aveau loc in SUA.
> Le-a sarit in ochi printre altele un proiect care dorea sa faca
> leucemia transmisibila prin aer (airborn). Comentatorul a observat,
> ca daca asta era pe lista oficiala, ce exista pe cea ne-oficiala!
> Nu va pune pe ginduri?
>

vodka
2009-04-30 23:47:59

Am vazut poza cu Piticu-rus cum pupa un pistol, foarte reusita! Dar de ce poarta ochelari de soare?

Dar de ce poarta ochelari de soare, zau asa, ca doar nu este vorba aici de cine stie ce Carlos, sau Che, sau alti smintiti de astia?
Piticu-rus este o gospodina curatica, pensionata convenabil, si cu relatii.

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 00:01:40

Re: Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says: Da-ne si noua o sursa credibila

despre aceste "declaratii". Nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste.La 2009-04-30 21:44:03, Anca2008 a scris:

> The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al
> Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is
> a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an
> identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order
> to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership
> for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is
> the US. Cook has previously written:
>
> Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the
> computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and
> trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely
> confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser
> Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is
> "a mythical historical narrative".
>
> And see this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary
> entitled "The Power of Nightmares", which shows that the
> threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article
> on the people within the U.S. who are behind the hype).
>
> Not only has the U.S. government hyped Al Qaeda, but it has issued
> numerous fake terror alerts to scare people.
>
> There is a word for intentionally creating fear in order to manipulate
> opinion for political ends: terrorism.
>

geek-a-contra
2009-05-01 00:31:27

mare-i gradina domnului.....

... scunde gardurile si multi nebunii care le sar. problema este ca multi dintre nebunii astia ajung ziaristi....

pina una alta parerea celor in tema, adica a alora de sint specialisti in virosologie este din ce in ce mai clara: virusul este porcin pur si simplu, combinatiue a doua tulpini cunoscute din '930 si una din '979, fara gene umane sau aviare

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/swinefluupdate/

ptr cine nu stie cdc = center for disease control....

Anca2008
2009-05-01 00:32:18

Am mentionat oare..

ca Robin Cook a murit la 4 (patru) saptamini dupa ce a facut aceasta faimoasa declaratie? Pentru toti Paulii si Royii si altii ca ei. Interviul a aparut initial in The Guardian dar deocamdata nu l-am mai gasit decit pe globalresearch.ca. De ce, nu e greu de inteles. Omul a platit cu viata. Asa cum si a platit cu viata si Dr. David Kelly (tot din ministerul britanic de externe) pentru ca a indraznit sa sugereze ca raportul despre WMD din Irak ar fi fost falsificat.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291
Amanunte aflati din biografia lui:

In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western intelligence:
" Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians...'

Budapestanul
2009-05-01 00:35:16

prostii

mentalitatea trebuie schimbata si obiceiruili di la tara: spala te pe maini, trateaza termic canea si poarta masca. sapunul cat costa dar apa dar o masca dar gazul la bucatarie:? deci despre ce vorbim despre fapt: despre igiena aia pe care o atribuim celor 7 anisori di acasa...........eu la asta mas gandi ianate de laboratoare sicriete si implicatiile lui x sau y.

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 00:46:37

Re: Am mentionat oare..Ti-am cerut surse credibile, nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste

Vad ca nu intelegi ce inseamna SURSE CREDIBILE.La 2009-05-01 00:32:18, Anca2008 a scris:

> ca Robin Cook a murit la 4 (patru) saptamini dupa ce a facut aceasta
> faimoasa declaratie? Pentru toti Paulii si Royii si altii ca ei.
> Interviul a aparut initial in The Guardian dar deocamdata nu l-am mai
> gasit decit pe globalresearch.ca. De ce, nu e greu de inteles. Omul a
> platit cu viata. Asa cum si a platit cu viata si Dr. David Kelly (tot
> din ministerul britanic de externe) pentru ca a indraznit sa sugereze
> ca raportul despre WMD din Irak ar fi fost falsificat.
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291
> Amanunte aflati din biografia lui:
>
> In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused
> a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western
> intelligence:
> " Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental
> miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he
> was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against
> the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the
> database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of
> mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to
> defeat the Russians...'
>

Evreu-rus
2009-05-01 00:47:48

Re: Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says: Da-ne si noua o sursa credibila

La 2009-05-01 00:01:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> despre aceste "declaratii". Nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste.

Nici o sursa nu este suficient de veridica ptr dumneata. Dar, poftim totusi linqul:
Al Qaeda -- the Database
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291

dorinP
2009-05-01 00:51:47

Re: Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says: Da-ne si noua o sursa credibila

Vrei dupa cum bag seama sa-ti si mestece...

N-as fi facut efortul sa scriu mesajul dar m-am cam saturat de mesajele din categoria reflexe de gasca involuntare pe care unii de pe lista le posteaza intr-o veselie.
E adevarat, Anca cade uneori in capcanele zvonisticii la moda pe bloguri si in mass media dar de cele mai multe ori prezinta stiri reale. Vrei sa ii arati ca n-are dreptate, du-te la wiki care este renumita pentru apararea teoriilor de conspiratie oficiale, citeste si combate-o daca poti cu argumente nu cu tehnici demne de copii de gradinita. Mai era unul pe lista care a venit cu replica suprema cine zice ala e. Incercati sa cresteti un pic!

Vezi mai jos ce scrie Cook in guardian. Puteai sa gasesti si singur.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development

The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means

The G8 must seize the opportunity to address the wider issues at the root of such atrocities

* Robin Cook
* The Guardian, Friday 8 July 2005 15.00 BST
[...]
Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.
[...]

La 2009-05-01 00:01:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> despre aceste "declaratii". Nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste.La
> 2009-04-30 21:44:03, Anca2008 a scris:
>
> > The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al
> > Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is
> > a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an
> > identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order
> > to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership
> > for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is
> > the US. Cook has previously written:
> >
> > Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the
> > computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and
> > trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely
> > confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser
> > Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is
> > "a mythical historical narrative".
> >
> > And see this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary
> > entitled "The Power of Nightmares", which shows that the
> > threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article
> > on the people within the U.S. who are behind the hype).
> >
> > Not only has the U.S. government hyped Al Qaeda, but it has issued
> > numerous fake terror alerts to scare people.
> >
> > There is a word for intentionally creating fear in order to manipulate
> > opinion for political ends: terrorism.
> >
>
>

Anca2008
2009-05-01 01:15:56

Nu te obosi Paulica

Cei ca tine n-or sa creada nici daca iese Cook din groapa si le spune personal.
Stai linistit, totul e in regula. Atita timp cit nu zice la CNN sau Fox, situatia este sub control .. :))

Evreu-rus
2009-05-01 01:18:45

Anca, nu-ti mai manca nervii cu unul precum Paul, caci nu se merita, zau!

La 2009-05-01 00:32:18, Anca2008 a scris:

> ca Robin Cook a murit la 4 (patru) saptamini dupa ce a facut aceasta
> faimoasa declaratie? Pentru toti Paulii si Royii si altii ca ei.
> Interviul a aparut initial in The Guardian dar deocamdata nu l-am mai
> gasit decit pe globalresearch.ca. De ce, nu e greu de inteles. Omul a
> platit cu viata. Asa cum si a platit cu viata si Dr. David Kelly (tot
> din ministerul britanic de externe) pentru ca a indraznit sa sugereze
> ca raportul despre WMD din Irak ar fi fost falsificat.
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291
> Amanunte aflati din biografia lui:
>
> In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused
> a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western
> intelligence:
> " Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental
> miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he
> was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against
> the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the
> database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of
> mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to
> defeat the Russians...'

Ptr dumnealui doar sursele de informare care au primit incuviintarea tandemului fatal americani&israelieni sunt purtatoarele adevarului absolut. Acesti indivizi sunt incurabili, ceea ce iti ramane de facut este sa ii ignori cu desavarsire.

Anca2008
2009-05-01 01:37:31

Pentru Evreu-rus

Da stiu, ai dreptate.... totusi sint si ei oameni si mi-e mila cind ii vad atit de nepuntinciosi si inconstienti. Daca stii engleza, uite articolul original. Daca nu, ti-l pot traduce. Vezi paragraful 8. Aceasta declaratia a fost platita cu singe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development

Anca2008
2009-05-01 02:06:22

Pentru DorinP

De-abia acum am citit postarea ta, daca o citeam mai inainte nu ma mai chinuiam atita sa gasesc linkul in The Guardian... il 'imprumutam' de la tine :)
Multumesc pentru sustinere, eh? In acelasi timp imi pare sincer rau ca las impresia de a crede zvonurilor. Ce se intimpla este ca studiez aceste probleme de cel putin sase-sapte ani. La inceput ma uitam doar de curiozitate si salvam fisierele interesante in word ca sa le imprim fara sa pastrez link-urile. Deci uneori mi se intimpla sa nu am back-up pentru ceea ce reproduc din memorie. Este adevarat ca memoria poate distorsiona un pic informatia dar.. . esentialul ramine. O singura data imi amintesc ca am spus ceva total neadevarat insa atunci cind mi-am dat seama am retractat imediat. Nu imi este rusine sa imi asum greselile.

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 02:15:13

Re: Pentru Evreu-rus. Eu ma refeream la urmatoarele doua MINCIUNI:

1.Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says:The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the devil only in order to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism.
2.Cook is merely confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is a mythical historical narrative.

In articolul citat Cook isi exprima parerea lui onesta. Departe de elucubratiile tale de mai sus. Si, a' propos, unde a spus Brzezinski traznaia de mai sus?

La 2009-05-01 01:37:31, Anca2008 a scris:

> Da stiu, ai dreptate.... totusi sint si ei oameni si mi-e mila cind ii
> vad atit de nepuntinciosi si inconstienti. Daca stii engleza, uite
> articolul original. Daca nu, ti-l pot traduce. Vezi paragraful 8.
> Aceasta declaratia a fost platita cu singe.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development
>

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 02:22:13

Re: E cu totul altceva decat minciunile vehiculate de la globalresearch

Parerea lui onesta (a lui Cook) este ca Bin Laden a fost o greseala de calcul a Americii. Cu alta ocazie am discutat aici despre "intoarcerea armelor" de catre Al Qaida dupa luarea comenzii de catre Al Zawahiri (in anii '90 Bin Laden era deja bolnav si a lasat fraiele lui Zawahiri), agent KGB din Fratiile Musulmane cu "stagiu" in Rusia.La 2009-05-01 00:51:47, dorinP a scris:

> Vrei dupa cum bag seama sa-ti si mestece...
>
> N-as fi facut efortul sa scriu mesajul dar m-am cam saturat de
> mesajele din categoria reflexe de gasca involuntare pe care unii de
> pe lista le posteaza intr-o veselie.
> E adevarat, Anca cade uneori in capcanele zvonisticii la moda pe
> bloguri si in mass media dar de cele mai multe ori prezinta stiri
> reale. Vrei sa ii arati ca n-are dreptate, du-te la wiki care este
> renumita pentru apararea teoriilor de conspiratie oficiale, citeste
> si combate-o daca poti cu argumente nu cu tehnici demne de copii de
> gradinita. Mai era unul pe lista care a venit cu replica suprema cine
> zice ala e. Incercati sa cresteti un pic!
>
> Vezi mai jos ce scrie Cook in guardian. Puteai sa gasesti si singur.
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development
>
> The struggle against terrorism cannot be won by military means
>
> The G8 must seize the opportunity to address the wider issues at the
> root of such atrocities
>
> * Robin Cook
> * The Guardian, Friday 8 July 2005 15.00 BST
> [...]
> Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by
> western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA
> and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation
> of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally
> the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited
> and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians.
> Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to
> have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin
> Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.
> [...]
>
> La 2009-05-01 00:01:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:
>
> > despre aceste "declaratii". Nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste.La
> > 2009-04-30 21:44:03, Anca2008 a scris:
> >
> > > The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al
> > > Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is
> > > a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an
> > > identified entity representing the ‘devil’ only in order
> > > to drive the TV watcher to accept a unified international leadership
> > > for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is
> > > the US. Cook has previously written:
> > >
> > > Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the
> > > computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and
> > > trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Cook is merely
> > > confirming what others have said. Former National Security Adviser
> > > Zbigniew Brzezinski told the Senate that the war on terror is
> > > "a mythical historical narrative".
> > >
> > > And see this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary
> > > entitled "The Power of Nightmares", which shows that the
> > > threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article
> > > on the people within the U.S. who are behind the hype).
> > >
> > > Not only has the U.S. government hyped Al Qaeda, but it has issued
> > > numerous fake terror alerts to scare people.
> > >
> > > There is a word for intentionally creating fear in order to manipulate
> > > opinion for political ends: terrorism.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Anca2008
2009-05-01 02:27:19

Re: Pentru Evreu-rus

Auzi stii ce? Daca chiar te intereseaza pune mina si cauta. Asa cum prima parte este adevarata, asa este si a doua. N-o sa-mi pierd timpul sa-i aduc dovezi la nas lui Paul din Ohio de ceva care oricum n-o sa creada. Adica sa pierd ore cautind link-ul original ca la sfirsit sa vii tu sa faci pe desteptul ca asa si pe dincolo. Din partea mea, somn usor fratilor, totul e ok. Guvernul mondial vegheaza pentru linistea dumneavoastra.

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 03:06:43

Re: NU E ADEVARATA NICIO PARTE

din ce ai scris tu. Doar o mica propozitie adevarata, ascunsa intre tone de minciuni. Astia sunteti voi, diversionistii.
La 2009-05-01 02:27:19, Anca2008 a scris:

> Asa cum
> prima parte este adevarata, asa este si a doua. >

Anca2008
2009-05-01 03:35:55

Re: ok, ok...

am facut eu jobul tau si de data asta.... Washington Post e suficient de credibil pentru inaltele tale standarde?

Ia baga ochiul si citeste-ti conationalul scriind negru pe alb: 'To justify the "war on terror," the administration has lately crafted a false historical narrative'

Anca2008
2009-05-01 03:55:04

Re: Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301613.html

Anca2008
2009-05-01 04:00:29

dar ca sa nu ramii cu impresia

ca Brzezinski spune tot adevarul sau ca ar fii vreun 'good guy', uite ce declara cu anisori buni in urma in 'Le Nouvel Observateur':


http://hebdo.nouvelobs.com/hebdo/parution/p19980115/articles/a19460-.html

Presupun ca nu stii franceza. Iata traducerea in engleza:

Ex-Security Chief Brzezinski's Interview makes clear:
The Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US Intelligence as a Geopolitical Weapon
Le Nouvel Observateur's Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
Published 15-21 January 1998
Translated by Jean Martineau
[Posted 6 September 2004]
Le Nouvel Observateur: Former CIA director Robert Gates states in his memoirs: The American secret services began six months before the Soviet intervention to support the Mujahideen [in Afghanistan]. At that time you were president Carters security advisor; thus you played a key role in this affair. Do you confirm this statement?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version, the CIA's support for the Mujahideen began in 1980, i.e. after the Soviet army's invasion of Afghanistan on 24 December 1979. But the reality, which was kept secret until today, is completely different: Actually it was on 3 July 1979 that president Carter signed the first directive for the secret support of the opposition against the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And on the same day I wrote a note, in which I explained to the president that this support would in my opinion lead to a military intervention by the Soviets.
Le Nouvel Observateur: Despite this risk you were a supporter of this covert action? But perhaps you expected the Soviets to enter this war and tried to provoke it?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: It's not exactly like that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene but we knowingly increased the probability that they would do it.

Le Nouvel Observateur: When the Soviets justified their intervention with the statement that they were fighting against a secret US interference in Afghanistan, nobody believed them. Nevertheless there was a core of truth to this...Do you regret nothing today?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Regret what? This secret operation was an excellent idea. It lured the Russians into the Afghan trap, and you would like me to regret that? On the day when the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote president Carter, in essence: "We now have the opportunity to provide the USSR with their Viet Nam war." Indeed for ten years Moscow had to conduct a war that was intolerable for the regime, a conflict which involved the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet Empire.

Le Nouvel Observateur: And also, don't you regret having helped future terrorists, having given them weapons and advice?

Zbigniew Brzezinski: What is most important for world history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? Some Islamic hotheads or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

Le Nouvel Observateur: "Some hotheads?" But it has been said time and time again: today Islamic fundamentalism represents a world-wide threat...

Zbigniew Brzezinski: Rubbish! It's said that the West has a global policy regarding Islam. That's hogwash: there is no global Islam. Let's look at Islam in a rational and not a demagogic or emotional way. It is the first world religion with 1.5 billion adherents. But what is there in common between fundamentalist Saudi Arabia, moderate Morocco, militaristic Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt and secularized Central Asia? Nothing more than that which connects the Christian countries...

akimottte
2009-05-01 04:15:26

Re: Am mentionat oare..Ti-am cerut surse credibile, nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste

Cine spune ca ale tale sint credibile ?
Tu crezi de fo 8 ani in printzese, cosinzene si batai cu zmeu' zmeilor si greuceanu care-i taie capu' ..
Greuceanu lu' matale ... s-a convins toata lumea ce fel de gushter e .
Mai schimba si tu repertoriul ....sau ma rog, schimba doctorul...
Eu am inceput sa scriu pentru astia micii care nu mai cred in alba ca zapada, povesti cu KGB-isti si hohAilovici zmeoilovici de la Ohiao...
Sa ride astia micii cu lacrimi de ispravile tale !



La 2009-05-01 00:46:37, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> Vad ca nu intelegi ce inseamna SURSE CREDIBILE.La 2009-05-01 00:32:18,
> Anca2008 a scris:
>
> > ca Robin Cook a murit la 4 (patru) saptamini dupa ce a facut aceasta
> > faimoasa declaratie? Pentru toti Paulii si Royii si altii ca ei.
> > Interviul a aparut initial in The Guardian dar deocamdata nu l-am mai
> > gasit decit pe globalresearch.ca. De ce, nu e greu de inteles. Omul a
> > platit cu viata. Asa cum si a platit cu viata si Dr. David Kelly (tot
> > din ministerul britanic de externe) pentru ca a indraznit sa sugereze
> > ca raportul despre WMD din Irak ar fi fost falsificat.
> > http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291
> > Amanunte aflati din biografia lui:
> >
> > In a column for the Guardian four weeks before his death, Cook caused
> > a stir when he described Al-Qaeda as a product of a western
> > intelligence:
> > " Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental
> > miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he
> > was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against
> > the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the
> > database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of
> > mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to
> > defeat the Russians...'
> >
>
>

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 04:17:14

Re: Washington Post. Da si ce-i cu asta?

Uite cum se termina articolul:

Even in the face of future terrorist attacks, the likelihood of which cannot be denied, let us show some sense. Let us be true to our traditions.

Sensul aberatiilor pe care le-ai copiat din "globalresearch" era ca, dupa Brzezinski, terorismul vostru islamist-KGBist nici nu exista. Si doar guvernul american vorbeste ca sa sperie lumea. De fapt Brzezinski critica doar alarmele false. Problema este ca nu se stie precis care alarma este falsa si care nu. Daca exista o informatie si guvernul nu o da publicitatii atunci ar putea fi criticat ca a stiut si nu a anuntat oamenii.
Sensul stramb si diversionist pe care blogurile voastre il dau oricarei luari de pozitie si incadrarea acesteia de minciuni sfruntate aduce aminte de presa stalinista si este caracteristica organizatiilor conduse sau inspirate de KGB.
La 2009-05-01 03:55:04, Anca2008 a scris:

> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/23/AR2007032301613.html
>
>

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 04:37:40

Re: dar ca sa nu ramii cu impresia. Brzezinski a urmarit atunci eliberarea Afganistanului

de sub cizma voastra bolsevica. Pe atunci talibanii purtau un razboi de eliberare doar acolo, in Afganistan. Pana la urma, KGB ul si-a luat o mica-mare revansa cu terorismul pe care l-a creat si sustinut. Dar asta a fost doar una dintre bataliile "castigate" de voi. Poate ca vor mai fi si altele. Dar razboiul il veti pierde cu siguranta. La 2009-05-01 04:00:29, Anca2008 a scris:

> ca Brzezinski spune tot adevarul sau ca ar fii vreun 'good guy', uite
> ce declara cu anisori buni in urma in 'Le Nouvel Observateur':
>
>
> http://hebdo.nouvelobs.com/hebdo/parution/p19980115/articles/a19460-.html
>
> Presupun ca nu stii franceza. Iata traducerea in engleza:
>
> Ex-Security Chief Brzezinski's Interview makes clear:
> The Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US Intelligence as a
> Geopolitical Weapon
> Le Nouvel Observateur's Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President
> Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
> Published 15-21 January 1998
> Translated by Jean Martineau
> [Posted 6 September 2004]
> Le Nouvel Observateur: Former CIA director Robert Gates states in his
> memoirs: The American secret services began six months before the
> Soviet intervention to support the Mujahideen [in Afghanistan]. At
> that time you were president Carters security advisor; thus you
> played a key role in this affair. Do you confirm this statement?
>
> Zbigniew Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version, the CIA's
> support for the Mujahideen began in 1980, i.e. after the Soviet army's
> invasion of Afghanistan on 24 December 1979. But the reality, which
> was kept secret until today, is completely different: Actually it was
> on 3 July 1979 that president Carter signed the first directive for
> the secret support of the opposition against the pro-Soviet regime in
> Kabul. And on the same day I wrote a note, in which I explained to the
> president that this support would in my opinion lead to a military
> intervention by the Soviets.
> Le Nouvel Observateur: Despite this risk you were a supporter of this
> covert action? But perhaps you expected the Soviets to enter this war
> and tried to provoke it?
>
> Zbigniew Brzezinski: It's not exactly like that. We didn't push the
> Russians to intervene but we knowingly increased the probability that
> they would do it.
>
> Le Nouvel Observateur: When the Soviets justified their intervention
> with the statement that they were fighting against a secret US
> interference in Afghanistan, nobody believed them. Nevertheless there
> was a core of truth to this...Do you regret nothing today?
>
> Zbigniew Brzezinski: Regret what? This secret operation was an
> excellent idea. It lured the Russians into the Afghan trap, and you
> would like me to regret that? On the day when the Soviets officially
> crossed the border, I wrote president Carter, in essence: "We now
> have the opportunity to provide the USSR with their Viet Nam war."
> Indeed for ten years Moscow had to conduct a war that was intolerable
> for the regime, a conflict which involved the demoralization and
> finally the breakup of the Soviet Empire.
>
> Le Nouvel Observateur: And also, don't you regret having helped future
> terrorists, having given them weapons and advice?
>
> Zbigniew Brzezinski: What is most important for world history? The
> Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? Some Islamic hotheads or
> the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
>
> Le Nouvel Observateur: "Some hotheads?" But it has been said time and
> time again: today Islamic fundamentalism represents a world-wide
> threat...
>
> Zbigniew Brzezinski: Rubbish! It's said that the West has a global
> policy regarding Islam. That's hogwash: there is no global Islam.
> Let's look at Islam in a rational and not a demagogic or emotional
> way. It is the first world religion with 1.5 billion adherents. But
> what is there in common between fundamentalist Saudi Arabia, moderate
> Morocco, militaristic Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt and secularized
> Central Asia? Nothing more than that which connects the Christian
> countries...
>
>
>
>
>

Evreu-rus
2009-05-01 05:12:28

Am tradus partial si aproximativ textul genialului Robin Cook (Dumnezeu sa-l odihneasca)

Sper sa va fie de folos: "Bin Laden a fost un produs al agentiilor se securitate occidentale. Pe parcursul anilor 80, el a fost inarmat de catre CIA si finantat de catre sauditi ptr a purta jihad impotriva ocupatiei ruse din Afganistan. Al-Qaida, literalmente "baza de date", a recrutat mii de tineri mujahedini care au fost formati cu ajutorul CIA, ptr a invinge rusii. Inexplicabil, si cu consecinte dezastruoase, imediat ce Rusia a fost inlaturata, organizatia lui Bin Laden pare-se ca s-a intors impotriva vestului.
Pericolul consta in raspunsul vestului la amenintarea terorismului. Atat timp cat lupta impotriva terorismului este conceput ca un razboi, care poate fi castigat prin mijloace militare, este sortita esecului din start. Cu cat mai mult vestul isi doreste confruntarea cu atat mai mult vocile moderate din lumea musulmana sunt reduse la tacere. Succesul poate fi obtinut doar prin izolarea "teroristilor" si blocarea oricarui sprijin, fonduri si posibilitatea de a gasi noi recruti, ceea ce implica concentrarea mai mult pe teren comun cu lumea musulmana decat pe ceea ce ne desparte.
Summit-ul G8 nu este cel mai bun forum unde sa lansam un astfel de dialog cu tarile musulmane, deoarece nici una dintre acestea nu este membra. De asemenea, nici una nu face parte din grupul select al economiilor emergente, cum ar fi China, Brazilia si India, care sunt, de asemenea, invitate la Gleneagles. Nu ne putem adresa sentimentului de marginalizare a tarilor musulmasne daca nu nu facem mai multe eforturi de a le include in arhitectura guvernarii globale.
Cresterea terorismului este motivata de saracia care se gaseste pe strazi, unde fundamentalistii ofera un fals, uaor sentiment de mandrie si identitate tinerilor barbati, care simt ca si-au pierdut orice speranta si orice oportunitate de a se redresa economic. UN RAZBOI GLOBAL IMPOTRIVA SARACIEI POATE FACE MAI MULT PENTRU SECURITATEA VESTULUI DECAT UN RAZBOI IMPOTRIVA TERORISMULUI.
Presedintele Bush justifica invazia din Irak prin lupta impotriva terorismului, ptr ca vestul sa fie protejat la el acasa. Orice altceva poate fi spus in apararea razboiului din Irak, nu se poate sustine ca el ne-a protejat de terorism pe teritoriul nostru."

akimottte
2009-05-01 05:17:43

Re: dar ca sa nu ramii cu impresia. Brzezinski a urmarit atunci eliberarea Afganistanului

Baga repede Rudotel in gitzi c-o sa latri pa strada si te ia hingherii !
Talibanii erau inarmati de hohaielistii aia de amerecani....Ben , la fel....Quaeda e doar ca lupu' din poveste, o inventie, ca sa li se faca frica lu' aia micii si timpitzii ca tine !
Ba paulica, tu cind iesi din pubertate ?




La 2009-05-01 04:37:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> de sub cizma voastra bolsevica. Pe atunci talibanii purtau un razboi
> de eliberare doar acolo, in Afganistan. Pana la urma, KGB ul si-a
> luat o mica-mare revansa cu terorismul pe care l-a creat si sustinut.
> Dar asta a fost doar una dintre bataliile "castigate" de voi. Poate ca
> vor mai fi si altele. Dar razboiul il veti pierde cu siguranta. La
> 2009-05-01 04:00:29, Anca2008 a scris:
>
> > ca Brzezinski spune tot adevarul sau ca ar fii vreun 'good guy', uite
> > ce declara cu anisori buni in urma in 'Le Nouvel Observateur':
> >
> >
> > http://hebdo.nouvelobs.com/hebdo/parution/p19980115/articles/a19460-.html
> >
> > Presupun ca nu stii franceza. Iata traducerea in engleza:
> >
> > Ex-Security Chief Brzezinski's Interview makes clear:
> > The Muslim Terrorist Apparatus was Created by US Intelligence as a
> > Geopolitical Weapon
> > Le Nouvel Observateur's Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski, President
> > Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser
> > Published 15-21 January 1998
> > Translated by Jean Martineau
> > [Posted 6 September 2004]
> > Le Nouvel Observateur: Former CIA director Robert Gates states in his
> > memoirs: The American secret services began six months before the
> > Soviet intervention to support the Mujahideen [in Afghanistan]. At
> > that time you were president Carters security advisor; thus you
> > played a key role in this affair. Do you confirm this statement?
> >
> > Zbigniew Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version, the CIA's
> > support for the Mujahideen began in 1980, i.e. after the Soviet army's
> > invasion of Afghanistan on 24 December 1979. But the reality, which
> > was kept secret until today, is completely different: Actually it was
> > on 3 July 1979 that president Carter signed the first directive for
> > the secret support of the opposition against the pro-Soviet regime in
> > Kabul. And on the same day I wrote a note, in which I explained to the
> > president that this support would in my opinion lead to a military
> > intervention by the Soviets.
> > Le Nouvel Observateur: Despite this risk you were a supporter of this
> > covert action? But perhaps you expected the Soviets to enter this war
> > and tried to provoke it?
> >
> > Zbigniew Brzezinski: It's not exactly like that. We didn't push the
> > Russians to intervene but we knowingly increased the probability that
> > they would do it.
> >
> > Le Nouvel Observateur: When the Soviets justified their intervention
> > with the statement that they were fighting against a secret US
> > interference in Afghanistan, nobody believed them. Nevertheless there
> > was a core of truth to this...Do you regret nothing today?
> >
> > Zbigniew Brzezinski: Regret what? This secret operation was an
> > excellent idea. It lured the Russians into the Afghan trap, and you
> > would like me to regret that? On the day when the Soviets officially
> > crossed the border, I wrote president Carter, in essence: "We now
> > have the opportunity to provide the USSR with their Viet Nam war."
> > Indeed for ten years Moscow had to conduct a war that was intolerable
> > for the regime, a conflict which involved the demoralization and
> > finally the breakup of the Soviet Empire.
> >
> > Le Nouvel Observateur: And also, don't you regret having helped future
> > terrorists, having given them weapons and advice?
> >
> > Zbigniew Brzezinski: What is most important for world history? The
> > Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? Some Islamic hotheads or
> > the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?
> >
> > Le Nouvel Observateur: "Some hotheads?" But it has been said time and
> > time again: today Islamic fundamentalism represents a world-wide
> > threat...
> >
> > Zbigniew Brzezinski: Rubbish! It's said that the West has a global
> > policy regarding Islam. That's hogwash: there is no global Islam.
> > Let's look at Islam in a rational and not a demagogic or emotional
> > way. It is the first world religion with 1.5 billion adherents. But
> > what is there in common between fundamentalist Saudi Arabia, moderate
> > Morocco, militaristic Pakistan, pro-Western Egypt and secularized
> > Central Asia? Nothing more than that which connects the Christian
> > countries...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

akimottte
2009-05-01 05:24:18

Re: My Sheet carle in american se cheam bullsheet !! Ar vrea ei sa poata !!

Ba analfabetule, du-te si balega-te pa alt islaz !




La 2009-04-30 22:59:13, Ghita Bizonu' a scris:

> Asa cum a zis-o si Pyrrhon necesitatile de "productie" sunt prea
> mari,.
> Inafara de laboratoare mai trebe si specialisti Ori chisitii ptr
> droguri nu-s de ajuns .
> Si suntm "marfuri" ptr care banii nu ajung !]
> Un specialist in asa ceva nu s-ar baga intr-un laborator care sa nu-i
> garanteze securitatea .... iar respectivii comandiotari presupusi is
> cam .. tembeli .
> Asa ca propun o imbunatire a schemei presupuse - aia au dat banii si
> niste laboratoare gubernamantale au7 excutat ...
> cate laboaratoare valabile mai exista in lume ?!!
>

akimottte
2009-05-01 05:29:47

Re: Former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook says: Da-ne si noua o sursa credibila

Poti sa-i dai 1000 de linkuri lu' premiantu' asta !
E ca un ceas d'ala vechi...il intorci si merge pina miine !
Sigur, nu-i vina lui ca de mult nu l-a mai intors nimeni .... da ce-i a lui e-a lui...este ca-i simpatic cialapadiul ??


La 2009-05-01 00:47:48, Evreu-rus a scris:

> La 2009-05-01 00:01:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:
>
> > despre aceste "declaratii". Nu blogurile voastre islamist-KGBiste.
>
> Nici o sursa nu este suficient de veridica ptr dumneata. Dar, poftim
> totusi linqul:
> Al Qaeda -- the Database
> http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=BUN20051120&articleId=1291
>

akimottte
2009-05-01 05:34:02

Re: mare-i gradina domnului.....

ai dreptate cu titlul.... virusul nu este porcin ci din cel mai bun aluat uman !
Adica porcul de om il paseaza porcului de porc ... mai citeste ca de data asta (si nu numai) esti tufa de Venetia !


La 2009-05-01 00:31:27, geek-a-contra a scris:

> ... scunde gardurile si multi nebunii care le sar. problema este ca
> multi dintre nebunii astia ajung ziaristi....
>
> pina una alta parerea celor in tema, adica a alora de sint specialisti
> in virosologie este din ce in ce mai clara: virusul este porcin pur si
> simplu, combinatiue a doua tulpini cunoscute din '930 si una din '979,
> fara gene umane sau aviare
>
> http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/swinefluupdate/
>
> ptr cine nu stie cdc = center for disease control....
>
>
>

Evreu-rus
2009-05-01 05:35:44

Si talibanii nu urmaresc, acum, eliberarea Afganistanului?

La 2009-05-01 04:37:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> de sub cizma voastra bolsevica. Pe atunci talibanii purtau un razboi
> de eliberare doar acolo, in Afganistan. Pana la urma, KGB ul si-a
> luat o mica-mare revansa cu terorismul pe care l-a creat si sustinut.
> Dar asta a fost doar una dintre bataliile "castigate" de voi. Poate ca
> vor mai fi si altele. Dar razboiul il veti pierde cu siguranta.

Ei, si acum talibanii se lupta ptr eliberarea Afganistanului de sub jugul american, care devine insuportabil ptr cetatenii afgani, pe an de ocupatie ce trece. Ce cauta SUA in Afganistan? Unul dintre motive: dupa interdictia impusa de talibani in 2000, productia mondiala de opium a scazut cu peste 90%. Rezultatul diresct: prabusirea traficului de droguri si pierderi subtantiale ptr traficanti si toti cei implicati in operatiune, inclusiv marile banci internationale, implicate in spalarea banilor profeniti din droguri. Valoarea profitului rezultat din traficul de droguri din regiunea afgana, ajunge pana la 200 miliarde $. O parte din profiturile obtinue din traficul cu droguri revine CIA (nu "KGB-ului") care protejeaza traficul de droguri din Asia si America Latina. Inlaturarea talibanilor de la putere a avut 2 principale scopuri: restabilirea legaturii cu bazinul petrolier din Marea Caspica (sigur) si restaurarea traficului de droguri, protejat de CIA (100%). Nu intamplator SUA este principala forta implicata in productia si vinderea opiului brut.
Dupa instalarea la putere a regimului-marioneta a lui Hamid Karzay, productia de opium a revenit la normal.
Terorismul a fost creat, finantat, inarmat si sustinut de SUA. Sunt convins ca nu ai nici o dovada concreta ca Rusia ar fi avut vreo contributie la aceasta "problema" spinoasa a omenirii, dar faci in continuare pe "vrasnicul luptator antibolsevic", poate ptr a atrage atentia asupra dumitale, pesemne.

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 05:39:43

Re: Se mai inseala lumea(Dumnezeu sa-l odihneasca)

De fapt, Al Qaeda a fost deturnata de catre KGB. KGB a fost abil, trebuie sa recunoastem. Acesta deturnase mai inainte Fratiile Musulmane si Islamic Jihad. Al Qaeda a devenit o parte a acestei organizatii sub influenta KGB. Asta este "secretul". El ca multi alti oameni cinstiti nu a vrut sa vada acest lucru. Si a accentuat, ca orice om cinstit de stanga, faptul ca "saracia" i-a impins pe teroristi la "fapte". Se stie insa ca niciunul dintre teroristii din 9/11 nu era sarac. Si putini dintre teroristii nascuti in Anglia sunt saraci. Are insa dreptate cu 'izolarea" si "blocarea" teroristilor. Dar in acest caz ar trebui izolate in primul rand statele care suporta terorismul.
P.S. Acest articol nu semana deloc cu ce a postat Anca din blogurile diversioniste pe care le copiati aici, zi de zi.La 2009-05-01 05:12:28, Evreu-rus a scris:

> "Bin Laden a fost un produs al agentiilor se
> securitate occidentale. Pe parcursul anilor 80, el a fost inarmat de
> catre CIA si finantat de catre sauditi ptr a purta jihad impotriva
> ocupatiei ruse din Afganistan. Al-Qaida, literalmente "baza de date",
> a recrutat mii de tineri mujahedini care au fost formati cu ajutorul
> CIA, ptr a invinge rusii. Inexplicabil, si cu consecinte
> dezastruoase, imediat ce Rusia a fost inlaturata, organizatia lui Bin
> Laden pare-se ca s-a intors impotriva vestului.
> Pericolul consta in raspunsul vestului la amenintarea terorismului.
> Atat timp cat lupta impotriva terorismului este conceput ca un
> razboi, care poate fi castigat prin mijloace militare, este sortita
> esecului din start. Cu cat mai mult vestul isi doreste confruntarea
> cu atat mai mult vocile moderate din lumea musulmana sunt reduse la
> tacere. Succesul poate fi obtinut doar prin izolarea "teroristilor"
> si blocarea oricarui sprijin, fonduri si posibilitatea de a gasi noi
> recruti, ceea ce implica concentrarea mai mult pe teren comun cu
> lumea musulmana decat pe ceea ce ne desparte.
> Summit-ul G8 nu este cel mai bun forum unde sa lansam un astfel de
> > Cresterea terorismului este motivata de saracia care se gaseste pe
> strazi, unde fundamentalistii ofera un fals, uaor sentiment de
> mandrie si identitate tinerilor barbati, care simt ca si-au pierdut
> orice speranta si orice oportunitate de a se redresa economic. UN
> RAZBOI GLOBAL IMPOTRIVA SARACIEI POATE FACE MAI MULT PENTRU
> SECURITATEA VESTULUI DECAT UN RAZBOI IMPOTRIVA TERORISMULUI.
> Presedintele Bush justifica invazia din Irak prin lupta impotriva
> terorismului, ptr ca vestul sa fie protejat la el acasa. Orice
> altceva poate fi spus in apararea razboiului din Irak, nu se poate
> sustine ca el ne-a protejat de terorism pe teritoriul nostru."
>
>

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 05:42:56

Re: Si talibanii nu urmaresc, acum, eliberarea Afganistanului? Nu

Ei urmaresc INROBIREA Afganistanului de o minoritate tiranica de care afganii au fost fericiti sa scape. La 2009-05-01 05:35:44, Evreu-rus a scris:

> La 2009-05-01 04:37:40, Paul din Ohio a scris:
>
> > de sub cizma voastra bolsevica. Pe atunci talibanii purtau un razboi
> > de eliberare doar acolo, in Afganistan. Pana la urma, KGB ul si-a
> > luat o mica-mare revansa cu terorismul pe care l-a creat si sustinut.
> > Dar asta a fost doar una dintre bataliile "castigate" de voi. Poate ca
> > vor mai fi si altele. Dar razboiul il veti pierde cu siguranta.
>
> Ei, si acum talibanii se lupta ptr eliberarea Afganistanului de sub
> jugul american, care devine insuportabil ptr cetatenii afgani, pe an
> de ocupatie ce trece. Ce cauta SUA in Afganistan? Unul dintre motive:
> dupa interdictia impusa de talibani in 2000, productia mondiala de
> opium a scazut cu peste 90%. Rezultatul diresct: prabusirea
> traficului de droguri si pierderi subtantiale ptr traficanti si toti
> cei implicati in operatiune, inclusiv marile banci internationale,
> implicate in spalarea banilor profeniti din droguri. Valoarea
> profitului rezultat din traficul de droguri din regiunea afgana,
> ajunge pana la 200 miliarde $. O parte din profiturile obtinue din
> traficul cu droguri revine CIA (nu "KGB-ului") care protejeaza
> traficul de droguri din Asia si America Latina. Inlaturarea
> talibanilor de la putere a avut 2 principale scopuri: restabilirea
> legaturii cu bazinul petrolier din Marea Caspica (sigur) si
> restaurarea traficului de droguri, protejat de CIA (100%). Nu
> intamplator SUA este principala forta implicata in productia si
> vinderea opiului brut.
> Dupa instalarea la putere a regimului-marioneta a lui Hamid Karzay,
> productia de opium a revenit la normal.
> Terorismul a fost creat, finantat, inarmat si sustinut de SUA. Sunt
> convins ca nu ai nici o dovada concreta ca Rusia ar fi avut vreo
> contributie la aceasta "problema" spinoasa a omenirii, dar faci in
> continuare pe "vrasnicul luptator antibolsevic", poate ptr a atrage
> atentia asupra dumitale, pesemne.
>

Omul din Himalaya
2009-05-01 05:48:48

Cum de nu ne-am gandit pana acum?

Asta trebuie sa fie explicatia! Doar ca se scrie "al-Qaeda" si se pronunta "al-Ciada".

Anca2008
2009-05-01 06:12:26

Paulica

iti convine sau nu-ti convine, conationalul si coreligionarul tau a zis cu gurita lui: 'There is no islamic terrorism.' Punct. Orice incerci sa bilbii mai departe sint ineptii.
Aceasta a fost ultima data cind ti-am adresat cuvintul. M-ai convins ca esti un om de nimic care chiar in fata evidentei continua sa latre aiurea. Penibil agitator naimit sa insire prostii pe forum si sa faca oamenii seriosi sa-si piarda timpul ...

Evreu-rus
2009-05-01 06:13:36

Re: Si talibanii nu urmaresc, acum, eliberarea Afganistanului? Nu

La 2009-05-01 05:42:56, Paul din Ohio a scris:

> Ei urmaresc INROBIREA Afganistanului de o minoritate tiranica de care
> afganii au fost fericiti sa scape. La 2009-05-01 05:35:44, Evreu-rus
> a scris:

Vezi ca nu esti fair play. Cand luptau impotriva rusilor, nu urmareau tot inrobirea Afganistanului? Acum lupta impotriva americanilor. Este exact aceeasi mancare de peste. Doar inamicul difera.
Pai, Afganistanul este deja INROBIT, fiind ocupat de 8 ani de zile de americani. Regimul-marioneta a lui Hamid Karzay nu mai este acceptat de populatie (candva fericita sa scape de talibanii adusi la putere de SUA), avand in vedere ca libertatile afganilor s-au diminuat considerabil in ultimul timp (sa nu omitem ultima gaselnita legislativa a lui Karzay- interzicerea femeilor sa refuze sa intretina raporturi sexuale cu sotii lor-de asemenea ticalosie nici macar talibanii nu erau in stare) iar nivelul lor de trai a scazut ingrijorator de mult.

Paul din Ohio
2009-05-01 06:21:47

Re: Paulica. De acord

Exista terorism islamist-KGBist, nu islamic.
La 2009-05-01 06:12:26, Anca2008 a scris:

> iti convine sau nu-ti convine, conationalul si coreligionarul tau(?) a
> zis cu gurita lui: 'There is no islamic terrorism.' Punct. >

ionion
2009-05-01 08:08:57

Teroristii incurajati de clica pseudobolsevica de la Moscova incearca

sa readuca sclavia in lumea libera prin diferite metode una mai deshantzata si criminala decat alta.
Si in Romania isi au agentii lor ca spre exemplu banda de teroristi condusa de Ion Iliescu care actioneaza absolut in libertate si seful statului se face ca ploua.

alwis46
2009-05-01 08:46:26

Fara traducere, pentru Evreu Rus si altii de teapa lui.

Mai propagandist de doi bani jumate, faci mereu abstractie de chestia aia cu ciomagul.
Cum ti-am mai spus, de orice capat tii un ciomag, trebuie sa fii atent sa nu te loveasca peste dinti celalalt capat.
Ca sa vezi cum devine cazul, baga ochiul colea si vezi cum aia la care esti tu sluga umila au antrenat salvaragii Al Qaeda, nu de alta dar sa nu mori cu impresia ca muscalii tai sunt lapte si mere pe pamant si ca onor KGB-ul s-a ocupat cu implementarea pacii pe pamant.
Dai din clanta cu americanii ca ei sunt sursa suprema a raului pe pamant facandu-te ca uiti ca aia la care slugarestgi au fost, sunt si vor ramane la fel de feroce instrumente ale raului ca alea pe care le incrimenzi toata ziua.
Macar esti platit bine in karboave pentru imunda ta reclama ?

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-13879674_ITM

Ayman al-Zawahiri, the reputed Number 2 chief in al-Qaeda and the man second only to Osama bin Laden on the FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorists" list, was trained by the Russian FSB (formerly known as the KGB). That's the story told by ex-FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko, who fled Russia in 2000. According to Litvinenko, as reported in the Polish newspaper Rzeczpospolita, on July 17, "Ayman al-Zawahiri trained at a Federal Security Service (FSB, former KGB) base in Dagestan in 1998." "He was then transferred to Afghanistan," the defector says, "where he became Osama bin Laden's deputy."
Mr. Litvinenko's brief revelation in Rzeczpospolita provides confirmation for suspicions many counterterrorism analysts have held concerning al-Zawahiri, whom federal authorities have called the "mastermind of 9/11." As reported in THE NEW AMERICAN in 2001, al-Zawahiri had been very active as the purported top leader of Islamist terrorist operations in Bosnia-Herzegovina during Yugoslavia's civil war. Throughout that period, he operated from a special headquarters in Sofia, the capital of Communist-run Bulgaria, which had been for decades a primary surrogate for Soviet training and sponsorship of terrorism. It was apparent that the Russians were playing both sides in the conflict, openly supporting the Serbs and covertly helping the Iranian-backed Muslims.
After helping establish Iranian control over the Bosnian military, al-Zawahiri embarked on a mysterious trip that took him first through China, where he conducted financial dealings with one of the Communist government's banks. Then it was on to Chechnya. Al-Zawahiri then crossed the border from Chechnya to Russian-controlled Dagestan, where he was arrested and "imprisoned" for six months. More likely, his "detention" was a cover for a period of training, planning, and debriefing. Through some supposed miracle of Allah, he escaped and made his way to Afghanistan, where he hooked up with bin Laden.
Is al-Zawahiri an Islamic fundamentalist or a Russian (Soviet) agent? Litvinenko's disclosures undermine the former and support the latter. After all, why would a devout Muslim do his banking in China, choose Bulgaria for his headquarters, and sojourn in Russia? And why would he be obsessed with jihad against the U.S. when it is Russia that slaughtered hundreds of thousands of his co-religionists in Afghanistan and Chechnya, and when it is Russia and China that continue to oppress and persecute millions of Muslims today?

http://thefinalphaseforum.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=262

Former KGB Officer Says Russia's FSB Trained, Employed Bin Ladin's Deputy "Al-Qa'ida Deputy Trained With Russia's Secret Service: Report" -- AFP headline
AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE
Sunday, July 17, 2005 T16:21:56Z
Journal Code: 2131 Language: ENGLISH Record Type: FULLTEXT
Document Type: FBIS Transcribed Text
Word Count: 161

http://halldor2.wordpress.com/2007/01/16/al-qaeda-and-the-kgb/
(...)
You made a reference to Al-Qaeda. Can you say more about that?

"We say that the KGB made a selection of persons to train coming from Afghanistan, Pakistan, the countries of the Middle East, from Iran, Iraq and Saudi Arabia: they became all the future cadres of Al-Qaeda. Indeed, colonel Alexander Litvinenko has made acute analyses and important revelations on precisely this point: while whoever trained these people did not perhaps expect September 11, they were perfectly aware that they had created and oiled mechanisms for the production of terror which could therefore have taken the terror against the West, as they had been taught."
WARSAW, Jul 16 (AFP) -- Al-Qa'ida's number two was trained by Russia's secret service and served as a KGB agent before becoming Osama Bin Laden's right-hand man, a former KGB secret agent told Poland'snewspaper on Saturday ( 16 July).
"Ayman al-Zawahiri trained at a Federal Security Service (FSB, former KGB) base in Dagestan in 1998," claimed ex-FSB agent Alexander Litvinenko who fled Russia in 2000.
"He was then transferred to Afghanistan where he became Usama Bin Ladin's deputy", Litvinenko told the newspaper.
"I was working in that section at the time and I can confirm the fact Zawahiri was not the only link between the FSB and Al-Qa'ida", he said.
Last month Al-Jazeerah television aired a new videotape of Egyptian-born Zawahiri in which he called for more "jihad," or holy war, against US forces and Israel.
(Description of Source: Paris AFP in English -- North European Service of independent French press agency Agence France-Presse)

Compiled and distributed by NTIS, US Dept. of Commerce. All rights reserved.
City/Source: Paris
DIALOG Update Date: 20050717; 13:32:28 EST
Descriptors: International Political; Leader; Terrorism; Urgent
Geographic Codes: POL; RUS; AFG
Geographic Names: Poland; Russia; Afghanistan; Europe; Eurasia; Asia; North Europe; South Asia
NewsEdge Document Number: 200507171477.1_450c0019f1d88e6d
Original Source Language: English
Region: Europe; Eurasia; Asia

World News Connection®
Compiled and distributed by NTIS. All rights reserved.
Dialog® File Number 985 Accession Number 210750185

geek-a-contra
2009-05-01 11:00:50

Re: akimotte, esti si tu unu' dintre aia care sar garduri?

arata-mi de unde rezulta ca omul a pasat virusul porcului? iote mai jos ce vad io in text. tu vezi altceva?

"The two strains whose genes are found in the hybrid belong to influenza families known generally as North American and Eurasian pig flu. The former was first described in the 1930s, and the latter in 1979. The Eurasian strain is generally found in Europe and Asia, rather than North America.
Neither of the strains have ever proven contagious in humans. One of the genes inherited from the Eurasian strain has reportedly never been seen in humans. It codes for the neuraminidase enzyme — the N1 in H1N1 — which controls the expansion of the virus from infected cells.

"The new neuraminidase gene that came in from Eurasian swine is one we’ve never before seen circulating in humans," said Rambaut. "That’s one of the reasons it’s spreading rapidly. Very few people will have any immunity to this particular combination, which is what gives the concern that this will be a pandemic rather than just a normal seasonal flu outbreak. It remains to be seen how much and to what extent there is existing immunity."

In medical terms, the genetic origins of the virus may not matter. Whether it come solely from pigs rather than a mix of pigs, birds and humans doesn’t change its immunological novelty.

.............................................

"That’s a logical conclusion," said Salzberg. "It was probably two different pigs, or one who got co-infected from others. The two strains mixed, and now you have a brand-new strain."

"Presumably somewhere there was a pig infected with both forms. We don’t know where or when. It could have been circulating in this form for a while," said Rambaut.

What comes next is anyone’s guess.

"Influenza virus mutates remarkably rapidly so there is no doubt that the virus will mutate and evolve in humans," said Holmes. "Quite what this evolution will result in is difficult to tell.""


La 2009-05-01 05:34:02, akimottte a scris:

> ai dreptate cu titlul.... virusul nu este porcin ci din cel mai bun
> aluat uman !
> Adica porcul de om il paseaza porcului de porc ... mai citeste ca de
> data asta (si nu numai) esti tufa de Venetia !
>
>
> La 2009-05-01 00:31:27, geek-a-contra a scris:
>
> > ... scunde gardurile si multi nebunii care le sar. problema este ca
> > multi dintre nebunii astia ajung ziaristi....
> >
> > pina una alta parerea celor in tema, adica a alora de sint specialisti
> > in virosologie este din ce in ce mai clara: virusul este porcin pur si
> > simplu, combinatiue a doua tulpini cunoscute din '930 si una din '979,
> > fara gene umane sau aviare
> >
> > http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/04/swinefluupdate/
> >
> > ptr cine nu stie cdc = center for disease control....
> >
> >
> >
>
>

ValVerde
2009-05-01 16:17:40

Re: Si talibanii nu urmaresc, acum, eliberarea Afganistanului? Nu

Cind Talibanii luptau impotriva rusilor, SUA a luat partea acelei fractiuni care, la timpul respectiv, ii servea cel mai bine interesele.
Intre extinderea comunismului si un regim totalitar habotnic religios, SUA i-a ales pe Talibanii locali. Americanii nu ar fi acum in Afganistan daca regimul Taliban nu ar fi ajutat pe teroristii de la 09/11. In general regimurile totalitare nu pot trai fara conflict pentru ca atunci le e greu sa-si justifice nerealizarile propriei populatii. Toti dictatorii au nevoie de un dusman extern....vezi Cuba, Venezuela, Argentina anilor 70, toate tarile ex comuniste, etc,etc, etc.
Talibanii l-au ajutat pe Bin Laden sa-i muste de c... pe americani, si uite asa se scrie istoria...


La 2009-05-01 06:13:36, Evreu-rus a scris:

> La 2009-05-01 05:42:56, Paul din Ohio a scris:
>
> > Ei urmaresc INROBIREA Afganistanului de o minoritate tiranica de care
> > afganii au fost fericiti sa scape. La 2009-05-01 05:35:44, Evreu-rus
> > a scris:
>
> Vezi ca nu esti fair play. Cand luptau impotriva rusilor, nu urmareau
> tot inrobirea Afganistanului? Acum lupta impotriva americanilor. Este
> exact aceeasi mancare de peste. Doar inamicul difera.
> Pai, Afganistanul este deja INROBIT, fiind ocupat de 8 ani de zile de
> americani. Regimul-marioneta a lui Hamid Karzay nu mai este acceptat
> de populatie (candva fericita sa scape de talibanii adusi la putere
> de SUA), avand in vedere ca libertatile afganilor s-au diminuat
> considerabil in ultimul timp (sa nu omitem ultima gaselnita
> legislativa a lui Karzay- interzicerea femeilor sa refuze sa
> intretina raporturi sexuale cu sotii lor-de asemenea ticalosie nici
> macar talibanii nu erau in stare) iar nivelul lor de trai a scazut
> ingrijorator de mult.
>

M_D_L
2009-05-01 17:24:18

Gripa porcina au adus-o astia care guitaie toata ziua pe forum, agentii de influenta platiti din V

Nu mai fac lista cu ei, ca se stie care sunt.

Ma iau de ei, ca si ei se iau de mine, tot timpul.

Toma Flamindul
2009-05-01 17:43:29

Care gripa ma?

Bai, descreieratilor, voi nu vedeti ca nu e nici o gripa? Sau daca e, e gripa ca oricare alta... Ca daca ar fi fost ceva serios, pina acum mureau citeva zeci de mii... Asta-i smecherie inventata de zulufatii mondiali sa va distraga atentia de la faptul ca va fura banii si va inrobeste si mai tare... Ia uitati-va sa vedeti cine-s proprietarii marilor companii farmaceutice... Nu observati ca e campanie sustinuta in toata presa din lume? Ia vedeti voi cine controleaza presa pe planeta asta... Nu mai bateti cimpii!

Evreu-rus
2009-05-01 18:10:30

Fara traducere, ptr Alwis si altii ca dumnealui

Daca ar fi ceva adevar in declaratiile raposatului Alexander Litvinenko (dusmanul neimpacat al Kremlinului pana in ziua decesului sau), atunci Rusia nu face decat sa le plateasca americanilor cu aceeasi moneda ptr anii cand combatantii Al-Qaida au fost recrutati, antrenati, finantati de serviciile secrete americane ptr a lupta impotriva ocupatiei sovietice a Afganistanului. Dupa fapta si rasplata, corect?

Al-Qaeda: A CIA protege
The Breeding-Ground and Birth of al-Qaeda
The USA, via the CIA, originally backed the Islamic guerrilla resistance against the Marxist regime and Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the late 1970s and 1980s. Its efforts focused increasingly on a hardline faction which was to spawn al-Qaeda in 1987-88. ...
Between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured in at least US $6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin [in Afghanistan]. Other western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more. ...
Washington's favoured mujaheddin faction was one of the most extreme, led by Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. ... Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.
As his unclassified CIA biography states, bin Laden left Saudi Arabia to fight the Soviet army in Afghanistan after Moscow's invasion in 1979. By 1984, he was running a front organization known as Maktab al-Khidamar ["Services Office"] - the MAK - which funneled money, arms and fighters from the outside world into the Afghan war.
What the CIA bio[graphy] conveniently fails to specify (in its unclassified form at least) is that the MAK was nurtured by Pakistan's state security services, the Inter-Services Intelligence agency, or ISI, the CIA's primary conduit for conducting the covert war against Moscow's occupation. ...
[Michael Moran, "Bin Laden comes home to roost", MSNBC, 24 Aug. 1998]
During Ronald Reagan's second term as President, the US effort was stepped up. Casey, the Irish-Catholic head of the CIA, projected a Christian-Islamic alliance against Soviet communism, and sought to extend the fight into the Soviet Union itself. Milton Bearden, who "had drawn close to Casey a few years earlier", became CIA station chief in Pakistan's capital Islamabad in July 1986.
More and more Arabs were arriving in Pakistan to fight alongside the Afghan resistance. Azzam and bin Laden's MAK financed and funneled these volunteers.
Milt Bearden was the CIA's station chief in Pakistan's capital Islamabad in 1986-89; as such he oversaw the agency's efforts to back the mujaheddin. He later said, "The CIA did not recruit Arabs. ... There were hundreds of thousands of Afghans all too willing to fight." And the CIA denied any direct contact with bin Laden.
But J. Michael Springmann, head of the non-immigrant visa section at the "CIA-dominated" US consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, in 1987-88, said he learned that the CIA had a "program to bring people to the United States for terrorist training, people recruited by the CIA and its asset Usama bin Laden, and the idea was to get them trained and send them back to Afghanistan to fight the then Soviets." "Their nationalities for the most part were Pakistani, Palestinian, Syrian, Lebanese." These "recruits without backgrounds" were given visas over Springmann's protests.
(Transcript of Springmann interview, Fox TV, 18 July 2002, Center for Cooperative Research; transcript of Springmann interview with CBC, 3 July 2002, 9/11 Review )
On American soil, the CIA used Muslim charities and mosque communities as fronts for recruitment of fighters in their secret war against the USSR [Operation Cyclone] in the Hindu Kush. As Cooley writes in Unholy Wars: "One was in New York's Arab district, in Brooklyn along Atlantic Avenue ... Another was a private rifle club in an affluent community of Connecticut."
Bin Laden and a man named Mustafa Chalaby, who ran a jihad refugee centre in Brooklyn, were both proteges of Abdullah Azzam. ...
Cooley says that those directly recruited by the US went to Camp Peary - "the Farm", as the CIA's spy training centre in Virginia is known in the intelligence community ... At the Farm and other secret camps, young Afghans and Arab nationals from countries such as Egypt and Jordan learned strategic sabotage skills. Passed down to the younger jihad generation which filled the ranks of the bin Laden organisation, these skills would come back to haunt the US. ...'
[Giles Foden, "Blowback Chronicles", Guardian, 15 Sept. 2001; referring to John Cooley, Unholy Wars: Afghanistan, America and International Terrorism (Pluto Press, no date given)]
The MAK, headed by the Palestinian-Egyptian Abdullah Azzam in conjunction with bin Laden, was based in Peshawar, Pakistan. Numerous branches were established in the USA under the name of al-Khifa. The first was set up in Tucson, amid the large Arab community there, in 1986. The 9/11 Commission's Report later noted that "A number of important al Qaeda figures attended the University of Arizona in Tucson or lived in Tucson in the 1980s and early 1990s".
The largest branch of al-Khifa was in Brooklyn's Atlantic Avenue, New York (in or next to the Farouq Mosque). Other branches were in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburgh, and elsewhere. Officially known as the al-Khifa Refugee Center and the associated Afghan Refugee Services, the Brooklyn centre provided the interface for "Operation Cyclone", the American effort to support the mujaheddin. The organization became known as the "Services Office", after its Peshawar original, and worked to raise funds and train recruits for the war effort.
Azzam is believed to have visited from time to time, and bin Laden was numbered among the financial supporters. Al-Khifa had a training camp (perhaps the "private rifle club") in Connecticut, where "Recruits received brief paramilitary training and weapons induction, according to evidence in [subsequent terrorist] trials". Several former members of the "active service" of the CIA were employed there as "expert consultants".
(Andrew Marshall, "Terror 'blowback' burns CIA: America's spies paid and trained their nation's worst enemies", Independent on Sunday [UK], 1 Nov. 1998; Steve Coll, Ghost Wars (Penguin, 2005 edn), p.155; 9/11 Commission Report, chapter 2, p.58 [HTML version]; ibid, chapter 7, p.226 [HTML version]; Richard Labeviere, Dollars For Terror [Algora, 2000; translation of Les Dolleurs de la Terreur, Grasset, 1999], pp.223-4)
In 1986, bin Laden brought heavy construction equipment from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan. Using his extensive knowledge of construction techniques, (he has a degree in civil engineering), he built "training camps", some dug deep into the sides of mountains, and built roads to reach them.
These camps, now dubbed "terrorist universities" by Washington, were built in collaboration with the ISI and the CIA. The Afghan contra fighters, including tens of thousands of mercenaries recruited and paid for by bin Laden, were armed by the CIA. Pakistan, the US and Britain provided military trainers. ...
Al Qaeda (the Base), bin Laden's organisation, was established in 1987-88 to run the camps and other business enterprises. It is a tightly-run capitalist holding company - albeit one that integrates the operations of a military force and related logistical services with 'legitimate' business operations.
[Norm Dixon, "How the CIA created Osama bin Laden" (autumn 2001)]
As the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan during 1988-9, a policy split emerged between the US State Department and the CIA. The State Department focused on moderate Afghan factions and a negotiated supersession of the Soviet-installed Najibullah regime. But the CIA continued military support, via Pakistan, of Hekmatyar and other Islamists. Meanwhile, Arabs continued to flow in to fight alongside the Afghan Islamists. ...
(Steve Coll, Ghost Wars (Penguin, 2005 edition), chapters 10 to 12)

http://www.geocities.com/libertystrikesback/afghans.html

Toma Flamindul
2009-05-01 18:14:15

Uite ca si asta stie...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/29/swine-flu-mexico-uk-media1



"We have gone demented. Two Britons are or were (not very) ill from flu. "This could really explode," intones a reporter for BBC News. "London warned: it's here," cries the Evening Standard. Fear is said to be spreading "like a Mexican wave". It "could affect" three-quarters of a million Britons. It "could cost" three trillion dollars. The "danger", according to the radio, is that workers who are not ill will be "worried" (perhaps by the reporter) and fail to turn up at power stations and hospitals.

Appropriately panicked, on Monday ministers plunged into their Cobra bunker beneath Whitehall to prepare for the worst. Had Tony Blair been about they would have worn germ warfare suits. British government is barking mad.

What is swine flu? It is flu, a mutation of the H1N1 virus of the sort that often occurs. It is not a pandemic, despite the media prefix, not yet. The BBC calls it a "potentially terrible virus", but any viral infection is potentially terrible. Flu makes you feel ill. You should take medicine and rest. You will then get well again, unless you are very unlucky or have some complicating condition. It is best to avoid close contact with other people, as applies to a common cold.

In Mexico, 2,000 people have been diagnosed as suffering swine flu. Some 150 of them have died, though there is said to be no pathological indication of all these deaths being linked to the new flu strain. People die all the time after catching flu, especially if not medicated.

Nobody anywhere else in the world has died from this infection and only a handful have the new strain confirmed, most in America and almost all after returning from Mexico. A couple from Airdrie who caught the flu on holiday in Cancun are getting better. That tends to happen to people who get flu, however much it may disappoint editors.

We appear to have lost all ability to judge risk. The cause may lie in the national curriculum, the decline of "news" or the rise of blogs and concomitant, unmediated hysteria, but people seem helpless in navigating the gulf that separates public information from their daily round. They cannot set a statistic in context. They cannot relate bad news from Mexico to the risk that inevitably surrounds their lives. The risk of catching swine flu must be millions to one.

Health scares are like terrorist ones. Someone somewhere has an interest in it. We depend on others with specialist knowledge to advise and warn us and assume they offer advice on a dispassionate basis, using their expertise to assess danger and communicating it in measured English. Words such as possibly, potentially, could or might should be avoided. They are unspecific qualifiers and open to exaggeration.

The World Health Organisation, always eager to push itself into the spotlight, loves to talk of the world being "ready" for a flu pandemic, apparently on the grounds that none has occurred for some time. There is no obvious justification for this scaremongering. I suppose the world is "ready" for another atomic explosion or another 9/11.

Professional expertise is now overwhelmed by professional log-rolling. Risk aversion has trounced risk judgment. An obligation on public officials not to scare people or lead them to needless expense is overridden by the yearning for a higher budget or more profit. Health scares enable media-hungry doctors, public health officials and drugs companies to benefit by manipulating fright.

On Monday the EU health commissioner, Androulla Vassiliou, advised travellers not to go to north or central America "unless it's very urgent". The British Foreign Office warned against "all but essential" travel to Mexico because of the danger of catching flu. This was outrageous. It would make more sense to proffer such a warning against the American crime rate. Yet such health-and-safety hysteria wiped millions from travel company shares.

During the BSE scare of 1995-7, grown men with medical degrees predicted doom, terrifying ministers into mad politician disease. The scientists' hysteria, that BSE "has the potential to infect up to 10 million Britons", led to tens of thousands of cattle being fed into power stations and £5bn spent on farmers' compensation. A year later, the scientists tried to maintain that BSE "might" spread to sheep because, according to one government scientist, "the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". The meat industry was wrecked and an absurd ongoing cost was imposed on stock farmers with the closure and concentration of abattoirs.

This science-based insanity was repeated during the Sars outbreak of 2003, asserted by Dr Patrick Dixon, formerly of the London Business School, to have "a 25% chance of killing tens of millions". The press duly headlined a plague "worse than Aids". Not one Briton died.

The same lunacy occurred in 2006 with avian flu, erupting after a scientist named John Oxford declared that "it will be the first pandemic of the 21st century". The WHO issued a statement that "one in four Britons could die".

Epidemiologists love the word "could" because it can always assure them of a headline. During the avian flu mania, Canada geese were treated like Goering's bombers. RSPB workers were issued with protective headgear.The media went berserk, with interviewers asking why the government did not close all schools "to prevent up to 50,000 deaths". The Today programme's John Humphrys became frantic when a dead goose flopped down on an isolated Scottish beach and a hapless local official refused to confirm the BBC's hysteria. The bird might pose no threat to Scotland, but how dare he deny London journalists a good panic?

Meanwhile a real pestilence, MRSA and C difficile, was taking hold in hospitals. It was suppressed by the medical profession because it appeared that they themselves might be to blame. These diseases have played a role in thousands of deaths in British hospitals - the former a reported 1,652 and the latter 8,324 in 2007 alone. Like deaths from alcoholism, we have come to regard hospital-induced infection as an accident of life, a hazard to which we have subconsciously adjusted.

MRSA and C difficile are not like swine flu, an opportunity for public figures to scare and posture and spend money. They are diseases for which the government is to blame. They claim no headlines and no Cobra priority. Their sufferers must crawl away and die in silence."