Externe

tot din articolul lui Siegman

Israel's government would like the world to believe that Hamas launched its Qassam rockets because that is what terrorists do and Hamas is a generic terrorist group. In fact, Hamas is no more a ‘terror organisation' (Israel's preferred term) than the Zionist movement was during its struggle for a Jewish homeland. In the late 1930s and 1940s, parties within the Zionist movement resorted to terrorist activities for strategic reasons. According to Benny Morris, it was the Irgun that first targeted civilians. He writes in Righteous Victims that an upsurge of Arab terrorism in 1937 ‘triggered a wave of Irgun bombings against Arab crowds and buses, introducing a new dimension to the conflict'. He also documents atrocities committed during the 1948-49 war by the IDF, admitting in a 2004 interview, published in Ha'aretz, that material released by Israel's Ministry of Defence showed that ‘there were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought . . . In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah were given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to uproot the villagers, expel them, and destroy the villages themselves.' In a number of Palestinian villages and towns the IDF carried out organised executions of civilians. Asked by Ha'aretz whether he condemned the ethnic cleansing, Morris replied that he did not:

A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our convoys and our settlements were fired on.

In other words, when Jews target and kill innocent civilians to advance their national struggle, they are patriots. When their adversaries do so, they are terrorists.

It is too easy to describe Hamas simply as a ‘terror organisation'. It is a religious nationalist movement that resorts to terrorism, as the Zionist movement did during its struggle for statehood, in the mistaken belief that it is the only way to end an oppressive occupation and bring about a Palestinian state. While Hamas's ideology formally calls for that state to be established on the ruins of the state of Israel, this doesn't determine Hamas's actual policies today any more than the same declaration in the PLO charter determined Fatah's actions.

La 2009-01-25 11:14:53, Arcturus a scris:

> tot din articolul lui Siegman
>
> Israel's government would like the world to believe that Hamas
> launched its Qassam rockets because that is what terrorists do and
> Hamas is a generic terrorist group. In fact, Hamas is no more a
> ‘terror organisation' (Israel's preferred term) than the
> Zionist movement was during its struggle for a Jewish homeland. In
> the late 1930s and 1940s, parties within the Zionist movement
> resorted to terrorist activities for strategic reasons. According to
> Benny Morris, it was the Irgun that first targeted civilians. He
> writes in Righteous Victims that an upsurge of Arab terrorism in 1937
> ‘triggered a wave of Irgun bombings against Arab crowds and
> buses, introducing a new dimension to the conflict'. He also
> documents atrocities committed during the 1948-49 war by the IDF,
> admitting in a 2004 interview, published in Ha'aretz, that material
> released by Israel's Ministry of Defence showed that ‘there
> were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought
> . . . In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah were
> given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to
> uproot the villagers, expel them, and destroy the villages
> themselves.' In a number of Palestinian villages and towns the IDF
> carried out organised executions of civilians. Asked by Ha'aretz
> whether he condemned the ethnic cleansing, Morris replied that he did
> not:
>
> A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of
> 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There
> was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to
> cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the
> main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our
> convoys and our settlements were fired on.
>
> In other words, when Jews target and kill innocent civilians to
> advance their national struggle, they are patriots. When their
> adversaries do so, they are terrorists.
>
> It is too easy to describe Hamas simply as a ‘terror
> organisation'. It is a religious nationalist movement that resorts to
> terrorism, as the Zionist movement did during its struggle for
> statehood, in the mistaken belief that it is the only way to end an
> oppressive occupation and bring about a Palestinian state. While
> Hamas's ideology formally calls for that state to be established on
> the ruins of the state of Israel, this doesn't determine Hamas's
> actual policies today any more than the same declaration in the PLO
> charter determined Fatah's actions.
>


Intrebare de prisos! Evident ca e mindru doar a si sustinut-o si o si sustine inca. Mai incape vreo indoiala dupa toata prestatia amicului de atitia ani pe acest forum?

Fiecare cioara crede ca puiul ei este cel mai frumos din lume zice o vorba de pe la noi din batrani.
Roy crede ca ai lui sunt cei mai buni, voi faceti propaganda pentru salvaragii si-i zugraviti numai si numai ca fiind imaculati porumbei ai pacii.
Uite ca nu-i asa.
ADEVARUL NU ESTE NICI AL LUI ROY DAR NICI AL VOSTRU IN NICI UN CAZ.
Fiecare dintre cele doua tabere are pe constiinta mii de morti si raniti din tabara adversa.
Contestati cumva acest adevar ?

Si a propos de istorie,cu ce este mai buna istoria palestinienilor decat a sionistilor ?
Adicatelea palestinienii au militat numai cu ramuri de maslini in maini de-a lungul istoriei lor ?
Sanchi, n-au facut-o cumva si cu arme ?
Adica vrei sa zici ca istoria palestinienilor nu este presarata cu episoade sangeroase comise de membrii ai acestei populatii ?
Cumva ai uitat ce au facut in Iordania care nu ii lasase sa moara si drept multumire au complotat pentru a pune ei stapanire pe respectiva tara ?
In alta ordine de idei, de chestia asta ce zici ?
http://www.adevarul.ro/rss/articol/militantii-hamas-jefuiesc-convoaie-umanitare-palestinienii-din-fasia-gaza-lasati-in-voia-sortii.html




La 2009-01-25 11:14:53, Arcturus a scris:

> tot din articolul lui Siegman
>
> Israel's government would like the world to believe that Hamas
> launched its Qassam rockets because that is what terrorists do and
> Hamas is a generic terrorist group. In fact, Hamas is no more a
> ‘terror organisation' (Israel's preferred term) than the
> Zionist movement was during its struggle for a Jewish homeland. In
> the late 1930s and 1940s, parties within the Zionist movement
> resorted to terrorist activities for strategic reasons. According to
> Benny Morris, it was the Irgun that first targeted civilians. He
> writes in Righteous Victims that an upsurge of Arab terrorism in 1937
> ‘triggered a wave of Irgun bombings against Arab crowds and
> buses, introducing a new dimension to the conflict'. He also
> documents atrocities committed during the 1948-49 war by the IDF,
> admitting in a 2004 interview, published in Ha'aretz, that material
> released by Israel's Ministry of Defence showed that ‘there
> were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought
> . . . In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah were
> given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to
> uproot the villagers, expel them, and destroy the villages
> themselves.' In a number of Palestinian villages and towns the IDF
> carried out organised executions of civilians. Asked by Ha'aretz
> whether he condemned the ethnic cleansing, Morris replied that he did
> not:
>
> A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of
> 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There
> was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to
> cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the
> main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our
> convoys and our settlements were fired on.
>
> In other words, when Jews target and kill innocent civilians to
> advance their national struggle, they are patriots. When their
> adversaries do so, they are terrorists.
>
> It is too easy to describe Hamas simply as a ‘terror
> organisation'. It is a religious nationalist movement that resorts to
> terrorism, as the Zionist movement did during its struggle for
> statehood, in the mistaken belief that it is the only way to end an
> oppressive occupation and bring about a Palestinian state. While
> Hamas's ideology formally calls for that state to be established on
> the ruins of the state of Israel, this doesn't determine Hamas's
> actual policies today any more than the same declaration in the PLO
> charter determined Fatah's actions.
>

Vierme, or fi criminali de ambele parti, dar numai unii sint tratati preferential. Ai inteles scarnavie care e problema?

La 2009-01-25 12:56:00, alwis46 a scris:

> Fiecare cioara crede ca puiul ei este cel mai frumos din lume zice o
> vorba de pe la noi din batrani.
> Roy crede ca ai lui sunt cei mai buni, voi faceti propaganda pentru
> salvaragii si-i zugraviti numai si numai ca fiind imaculati porumbei
> ai pacii.

Unii fac ceea ceea ce se cheama propaganda ptr arabi, altii fac (exemplul dumitale) propaganda ptr Israel, si zugravesc sionistii ca pe niste ingerasi rataciti in aceasta lume atat de rea si de primejdioasa ptr ei, care i-a holocauzit, ii holocauzeaza si ii va holocauzi pana cand acestia vor gasi drumul inapoi in Paradis. Fiecare dupa cum il duce mintea.

La 2009-01-25 14:36:50, .Sobru. a scris:

> Vierme, or fi criminali de ambele parti, dar numai unii sint tratati
> preferential. Ai inteles scarnavie care e problema?
-----------
In sfarsit,S.Vadim are dreptate:stanga mondiala consemneaza doar <lupta eroica>a popoarelor <de sub jugul imperialist>Si o tin asa de 50-60 de ani.ei nu vad incalcarile repetate ale teroristilor palestinieni,nu vad atacurile arabe asupra Israelului,dupa infiintarea acestui stat de ONU,ei nu vad teroristii care nici azi nu recunosc Statul suveran si democratic Israel!Daca mai punem si ura latenta a xenofobilor,rasistilor si antisemitilor,atunci avem exact ce spune S.Vadim: "numai unii sunt tratati preferential"....Limbajul folosit de SVadim este tipic pentru boala lui!Dar nu cum ar fi normal,de parea Israelului,singurul stat democratic al zonei,cu sute de mii de evrei din Romania,cu o istorie reflectata in Biblia noastra,nu!Cu strainii de palestinieni,pe care nici arabii nu-i inghit!De ce?Pentru ca asa a decis SS german si comunismul!Pentru ca exista rasisti pretutindeni.Pentru ca exista inca ramasitele propagandei comuniste....
>

Unde ai vazut ca i-am zugravit pe palestinieni ca fiind imaculati? Tocmai asta e ... istoria ambilor e preserata de crime. Sunt frati si vecini semiti ... seamna mult unii cu altii.

Israelul nu are dreptul sa tina palestinienii sub apartheid, in colonii dar are dreptul sa isi apere cetatenii. Palestinienii nu au dreptul sa omoare civili, dar au dreptul sa reziste ocupatiei israeliene.

Pana cand narativa e doar legata de "securitate" si nu se lucreaza serios la baza problemei - 2 state, ocupatia israeliana, coloniile evreiesti din West Bank, nu va fi liniste in regiune.




La 2009-01-25 12:56:00, alwis46 a scris:

> Fiecare cioara crede ca puiul ei este cel mai frumos din lume zice o
> vorba de pe la noi din batrani.
> Roy crede ca ai lui sunt cei mai buni, voi faceti propaganda pentru
> salvaragii si-i zugraviti numai si numai ca fiind imaculati porumbei
> ai pacii.
> Uite ca nu-i asa.
> ADEVARUL NU ESTE NICI AL LUI ROY DAR NICI AL VOSTRU IN NICI UN CAZ.
> Fiecare dintre cele doua tabere are pe constiinta mii de morti si
> raniti din tabara adversa.
> Contestati cumva acest adevar ?
>
> Si a propos de istorie,cu ce este mai buna istoria palestinienilor
> decat a sionistilor ?
> Adicatelea palestinienii au militat numai cu ramuri de maslini in
> maini de-a lungul istoriei lor ?
> Sanchi, n-au facut-o cumva si cu arme ?
> Adica vrei sa zici ca istoria palestinienilor nu este presarata cu
> episoade sangeroase comise de membrii ai acestei populatii ?
> Cumva ai uitat ce au facut in Iordania care nu ii lasase sa moara si
> drept multumire au complotat pentru a pune ei stapanire pe respectiva
> tara ?
> In alta ordine de idei, de chestia asta ce zici ?
> http://www.adevarul.ro/rss/articol/militantii-hamas-jefuiesc-convoaie-umanitare-palestinienii-din-fasia-gaza-lasati-in-voia-sortii.html
>
>
>
>
> La 2009-01-25 11:14:53, Arcturus a scris:
>
> > tot din articolul lui Siegman
> >
> > Israel's government would like the world to believe that Hamas
> > launched its Qassam rockets because that is what terrorists do and
> > Hamas is a generic terrorist group. In fact, Hamas is no more a
> > &#8216;terror organisation' (Israel's preferred term) than the
> > Zionist movement was during its struggle for a Jewish homeland. In
> > the late 1930s and 1940s, parties within the Zionist movement
> > resorted to terrorist activities for strategic reasons. According to
> > Benny Morris, it was the Irgun that first targeted civilians. He
> > writes in Righteous Victims that an upsurge of Arab terrorism in 1937
> > &#8216;triggered a wave of Irgun bombings against Arab crowds and
> > buses, introducing a new dimension to the conflict'. He also
> > documents atrocities committed during the 1948-49 war by the IDF,
> > admitting in a 2004 interview, published in Ha'aretz, that material
> > released by Israel's Ministry of Defence showed that &#8216;there
> > were far more Israeli acts of massacre than I had previously thought
> > . . . In the months of April-May 1948, units of the Haganah were
> > given operational orders that stated explicitly that they were to
> > uproot the villagers, expel them, and destroy the villages
> > themselves.' In a number of Palestinian villages and towns the IDF
> > carried out organised executions of civilians. Asked by Ha'aretz
> > whether he condemned the ethnic cleansing, Morris replied that he did
> > not:
> >
> > A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of
> > 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore it was necessary to uproot them. There
> > was no choice but to expel that population. It was necessary to
> > cleanse the hinterland and cleanse the border areas and cleanse the
> > main roads. It was necessary to cleanse the villages from which our
> > convoys and our settlements were fired on.
> >
> > In other words, when Jews target and kill innocent civilians to
> > advance their national struggle, they are patriots. When their
> > adversaries do so, they are terrorists.
> >
> > It is too easy to describe Hamas simply as a &#8216;terror
> > organisation'. It is a religious nationalist movement that resorts to
> > terrorism, as the Zionist movement did during its struggle for
> > statehood, in the mistaken belief that it is the only way to end an
> > oppressive occupation and bring about a Palestinian state. While
> > Hamas's ideology formally calls for that state to be established on
> > the ruins of the state of Israel, this doesn't determine Hamas's
> > actual policies today any more than the same declaration in the PLO
> > charter determined Fatah's actions.
> >
>
>