Politica

vladut
2008-10-16 16:12:45

Eu zic sa-l ascultam ....

Stie KGB-istul tot, doar el a stat la baza evenimentelor.

Nashu
2008-10-16 17:05:10

Re: Eu zic sa-l ascultam ....

La 2008-10-16 16:12:45, vladut a scris:

> Stie KGB-istul tot, doar el a stat la baza evenimentelor.
>
>
Si ce-o sa-ti spuna naparca? Asta minte si cand ragaie.

CAP-istul
2008-10-16 17:25:41

SI EU ZIC CA-I NEDREPT.....

sa umble Ilici liber pe strada si sa ne dea lectii despre justitie si democratie in timp ce mai bine de 1000 de oameni zac in cimitire doar ca sa-si vada el implinit visul de a fi "iubitul conducator". Sa stea linistit ca nu-l uitam si nu-l iertam.

BOZGAN GHEORGHE
2008-10-16 19:00:54

DREPTATE,OCHII PLINSI VOR SA TE VADA

Cind Stanculescu a fost trimis la Timisoara,nimeni nu i-a cerut expres sa traga in demonstranti ci "sa puna ordine".Cind Stanculescu a ajuns la Timisoara el nu a facu altceva decit uzind de autoritatea lui pe linga sotii Ceausescu sa isi asume de facto rolul si de sef militar in chestiunea Timisoarei si a ordonat comandantilor de unitati militare "sa faca ordine"Fiecare comandant de unitate militara a acceptat de facto rolul de sef militat al lui Stancuelscu si a transmis mai departe subordonatilor de mici subunitati (plutoane ecompanii,batalionae) "sa faca ordine"Fiecare a inteles ce a vrut din acest ordin,cu conditia "sa se faca ordine"in Timisoara.Nimeni nu a dat un ordin scris si nimeni nu poate proba ca cineva a dat ordin expres sa se traga in demonstanti.Mai mult,conventiile internationale la care aderase si Romania comunista prevedeau expres ca in caz de tulburari interne,insurectii etc,fiecare guvern semnatar(deci si cel comunist roman)avea dreptul de a uza de forta militara pentru a restabili ordinea. Apararea juridica penala a lui Stanculescu este BETON,din lipsa probelor concrete,judecatorii insa pur si simplu au judecat speta la nivelul bunului simt si sub presiunea unei realitati sustinute de organizatiile revolutionare"cine este totusi vinovat ?" Fara probe concrete,Stanculescu si Chitac au fost condamnati.Juridic,un grav abuz judiciar ,moral,un act de justitie.Intr-o speta oarecum similata,(tribunalul de la Nuremberg)raspunderea penala a fost stabilita pentru liderii politici si nu militati (nici un general SS nu a fost condamnat la Nurembreg,ca sa nu mai vorbesc de generali ai Wermahtului-Goring a fost spinzurat nu pentru calitatea lui de felmaresal si sef al aviatiei militare naziste ci pentru functia lui in partidul nazist)deci,actul de justitie penala pentru represiunea militara trebuia sa inceapa cu ...liderii partidului comunist de dinainte de 1989 si nu cu ..executantii

CAP-istul
2008-10-16 21:07:50

BOZGAN...... aberezi

Probabil ca ai fost in birou cu ceausestii si Stanculescu de stii ce ordine a primit. Daca, la interventii, raspunderea juridica ptr. ordinele date apartine sefilor de dispozitive (Ofiterul MApN cu gradul cel mai mare) si fiecare a facut cum l-a taiat capul (cam greu de crezut), nici Stanculescu nici Chitac nu pot fi scutiti de raspundere, indiferent in ce forma au transmis ordinele. Va trebui sa te hotarasti ce idee imbratisezi: " N-au facut decat sa indeplineasca ordinele comandantului suprem" sau "N-a dat nimeni nici un ordin sa se traga in manifestanti" . Nu poti sa sustii simultan ambele idei. Te faci de cacao. In legatura cu procesul de la Nurnberg, iti spun ceva numele Jodl si Keitel ? Nu erau bucatari. Esti agitat si confuz. AI ceva pe suflet ? Vrei sa ne povestesti ceva de la revolutie si nu stii cum sa faci ?

BOZGAN GHEORGHE
2008-10-16 21:46:20

PENTRU CAP-IST

am analizat speta lui Stanculescu de pe pozitia unui care am lucrat si ca judecator si stiu cum se face analiza materialului probatoriu.Justitia (la cea serioasa ma refer,nu la cretini gen Kovesi,) lucreaza cu probe si nu cu supozitii,rationamente.ORICE DUBIU IN PROBATIUNE SE INTERPRETEAZA NUMAI IN FAVOAREA INCUPLATULUI,pentru ca se merge pe ideea ca mai bine sa scape un vinovat decit sa fie condamnat un nevinovat.Spre deosebire de tine care il stii pe Stanculescu de la tele ,eu l-am cunoscut si personal si stiu ca este un nemernic,un tip care n-ar ezita sa-ti traga un glont in ceafa daca el are ceva de castigat din asta.Eu sunt convins ca este unul din cei mai mari criminali ai Romaniei,dar juridic probele in acuzare nu se coroboreaza (adica nu se prijina unele pe altele )vinovatia lui penala se ..deduce,pentru ca asa au vrut cei ce l-au condamnat.Ma intrebi de cei doi generali nazisiti,da,cu ei ai dreptate,dar de ce n-au fost condamnati cei vreo 20 de generali SS si restul de vreo 300 de generali ai Wermahtului (apropo,stiai ca vreo 10 din ei aveau sub 30 de ani ?)PENTRU CA NU AU FOST PROBE IMPOTRIVA LOR,AU ACTIONAT CA MILITARI IN CONDITII DE RAZBOI

Radu Dragan
2008-10-16 23:28:50

Re:

parca ai vorbii de niste inocenti nu de criminali notorii in slujba
unui sistem criminal.

nu se judeca probele domnule, faptele se judeca.....
E adevarat ca studiilke la baneasa si la stefan gheorghiu nu pot sa-ti
asigure si posibilitatea de a face un argument.....
Cine apara un criminal cum e Chitzac?
Cine onoreaza un calaul cum e Iliescu?
Rudele, slugoii, securistii, activistii, comunicstii, si cei ce au tras floase in plutonul de ligai... ca cine altcineva?

Kermit
2008-10-17 03:45:51

Are dreptate Satana ...

... ce fel de dreptate e aia cand principalul vinovat, chiar el, Satana Rosie Ion Iliescu e in libertate. Autorul moral al crimelor din dec 89', al mineriadelor cu mortii ei, tartorul tuturor hotilor, artizan al statului supracorupt, calaul democratiei autentice, ciocanitoarea KGBului, groparul prosperitatii in Romania ..... si lista cu talente a ispititorului e atat de lunga ca i-as plictisii pe forumisti.

Ion Caramache
2008-10-17 04:19:50

Re: PENTRU CAP-IST

La 2008-10-16 21:46:20, BOZGAN GHEORGHE a scris:

> am analizat speta lui Stanculescu de pe pozitia unui care am lucrat si
> ca judecator si stiu cum se face analiza materialului
> probatoriu.Justitia (la cea serioasa ma refer,nu la cretini gen
> Kovesi,) lucreaza cu probe si nu cu supozitii,rationamente.ORICE
> DUBIU IN PROBATIUNE SE INTERPRETEAZA NUMAI IN FAVOAREA
> INCUPLATULUI,pentru ca se merge pe ideea ca mai bine sa scape un
> vinovat decit sa fie condamnat un nevinovat.....Eu sunt convins
> ca este unul din cei mai mari criminali ai Romaniei,dar juridic
> probele in acuzare nu se coroboreaza (adica nu se prijina unele pe
> altele )vinovatia lui penala se ..deduce,pentru ca asa au vrut cei ce
> l-au condamnat.Ma intrebi de cei doi generali nazisiti,da,cu ei ai
> dreptate,dar de ce n-au fost condamnati cei vreo 20 de generali SS si
> restul de vreo 300 de generali ai Wermahtului (apropo,stiai ca vreo 10
> din ei aveau sub 30 de ani ?)PENTRU CA NU AU FOST PROBE IMPOTRIVA
> LOR,AU ACTIONAT CA MILITARI IN CONDITII DE RAZBOI
>
Domnul fost judecator Gheorghe Bozgan nu prea este la curent cu faptul ca o gramada de generali din Wehrmachr si din Waffen SS au fost judecati, gasiti vinovati si condamnati.
Domnul fost judecator Gheorghe Bozgan este rugat sa citeasca lista de mai jos si, daca este cazul, este mai mult decit binevenit sa o conteste. Poate domnul fost judecator Gheorghe Bozgan sa dovedeasca fara nici-o indoiala ca lista de mai jos nu este reala?
******************************************************
Generals convicted in Case No. 7 which closed at Nuremberg on 19th February, 1948.

General Wilhelm LIST . Life imprisonment
General Lothar RENDULIC. 20 years imprisonment
Lt.-General Walter KUNTZE. Life imprisonment
Lt.-General Helmuth FELMY.15 years imprisonment
Lt.-General Hubert LANZ. 7 years imprisonment
Lt.-General Ernst von LEYSER. 10 years imprisonment
Lt.-General Wilhelm SPEIDE. 20 years imprisonment

General ANDRAE. Former Commander-in-Chief in Crete. Sentenced to life imprisonment.
General Nicola BELLOMO. Sentenced to death 28.7.45; shot on 11.9.45.
Lieut.-General Friedrich BERNHARDT. Ex-Commander of the German Second Tank Army. Sentenced to death on 29.12.45, and hanged on that day.
General Bruno BRAUER. Sentenced to death 9.12.46; shot on 20.5.47.
Lieut.-General Karl BURCKHARDT. Ex-Commander of the Rear of Sixth Army. Sentenced to death in January, 1946, and hanged on the same day.
Major General Peter CRASEMANN. Former Commander of 26 Panzer Division in Italy. Tried in April, 1947, sentenced to ten years’ imprisonment.
General DANCKELMANN. Sentenced to death.
Major General Karl von DEWITZ KREBS. Sentenced to 25 years’ imprisonment.
General "Sepp" DIETRICH Waffen SS. Tried 1946, and sentenced to life imprisonment 11.7.46.
Lieut.-General van DITFURT. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46 and hanged on the same day.
General Anton DOSTLER. Former Commander of the 75th German Army Corps. Tried, found guilty and sentenced to death 12.10.45. Sentence confirmed. Executed 1.12.45.
Kapitanleutnant Heinz ECK, of the German Navy. Ex-Commander of U-Boat 852. Tried, 17-20.10.45 for killing survivors of the crew of the steamship " Peleus." Found guilty and sentenced to death 20.10.45; sentence confirmed. Executed 23.11.45.
Major General ERMANNSDORF. Sentenced to death in January, 1946, hanged on 6.2.46.
General Nikolaus von FALKENHORST. Commander-in-Chief in Norway, sentenced to death 2.8.46 (sentence commuted to 20 years’ imprisonment 3.12.46).
General Hans FORTNER. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47; hanged on 27.2.47.
General Kurt GALLENKAMP. Sentenced to be hanged 25.3.47. Sentence commuted to life imprisonment.
Major General Hans GRAVENSTEIN. Commander of the 373rd (Tiger) Division. Sentenced to death 1.4.47.
General Adolf HAMANN. Sentenced to death 26.12.46, hanged the same day.
General Kurt HERZOG. Tried in 1947, and sentenced to 25 years’ imprisonment.
Lieut.-General Hans von HESSLIN. Sentenced to death by hanging on 27.7.47.
General JAENECKE. 25.11.47 sentenced to 25 years imprisonment.
Ex-Marshal Albert KESSELRING. Sentenced to death on 7.5.47. Sentence commuted to life imprisonment 4.7.47.
General Josef KNEBLER. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47; hanged on 27.2.47.
General Herbert KOESTLIN. Sentenced to life imprisonment 25.3.47 (confirmed 14.5.47).
Brig.-General Fritz KRAEMER. Waffen SS . Sentenced to death 11.7.46.
General Ludwig KUEBLER. 27.7.47, Sentenced to death.
General KUEPPER. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same day.
General Alexander von LOEHR. Sentenced to death 16.2.47; shot 27.2.47.
General Albert LONCAR. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47; hanged on 27.2.47.
Lieut.-General Hartwig LUDWIGER. Sentenced to death on 1.4.47.
General Eberhard von MACKENSEN. Sentenced to death by shooting on 30.11.46. (Sentence commuted to life imprisonment 4.7.47.)
General Kurt MAELZER . Sentenced to death on 30.11.46. Sentence confirmed, but death penalty commuted to life imprisonment (4.7.47).
Brigadier-General Kurt MEYER. Commander of the 12th SS. Panzer Division.. Sentenced to death 28.12.45 (commuted to life imprisonment 15.1.46.)
Air Marshal Erhard MILCH. Crimes against Humanity - sentenced to life imprisonment 17.4.47.
Lieut.-General DEJON von MOTETON. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same day.
General Friedrich MUELLER . Sentenced to death 9.12.46; shot on 20.5.47.
General NEIDHOLT. Sentenced to death 16.2.47; hanged 27.2.47.
Major-General Karl von OBERKAMP. Commander of Prinz Eugen SS Division. Sentenced to death and executed 1.4.47.
Lieut.-General OCHSNER. Sentenced to 25 years’ imprisonment.
Major-General PAUL. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same day.
General Hermann PRIESS. Commanding 1st Panzer Corps. Sentenced 1 I .7.46.
General von RAPPARD. Sentenced to death on 31.1.46, hanged on the same day.
Major-General Heinrich REMLINGER. Sentenced to death. Hanged 5.1.46.
Lieut.-General RICHERT. Sentenced to death; hanged on 6.2.46.
Hellmuth von RUCKTESCHELL. Sentenced to 10 years imprisonment (commuted to 7 years’) 21.5.47.
Lieut-General RUFF. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, and hanged on the same day.
General August SCHMIDT. Former Commander of the Waffen SS. Prinz Eugen Division No. 7. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47, and hanged on 27.2.47.
General August SCHMIDT. Ex-commandant of Luftgau VI. Sentenced to life imprisonment in November, 1947.
General SEEGERS. Sentenced to three years’ imprisonment on 11.7.46. Sentence confirmed 4.1.47.
Lieut-General Max SIMON. Former Commander of 16 SS Division in Italy. Sentenced to death 26.6.47.
Major-General von TSCHAMMER und OSTEN. Sentenced to death in January, 1946, hanged on the same day.
Major-General WERTHER. Commander of the Coastal district. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same day.
Major-General K. WOLF. Sentenced on 25.3.47 to seven years’ imprisonment. (Sentence confirmed 24.5.47.)

Kermit
2008-10-17 05:09:22

Re: PENTRU CAP-IST

Jodl si Keitel sunt doi dintre generalii care au fost executati in urma procesului de la Nuremberg.

demetrius
2008-10-17 08:02:02

Nu-i destul ca tu ai scapat nespanzurat,

mai iei si apararea altora. Ar trebui sa fii coleg de celula cu ei, uciga-te toaca ce esti !

M_D_L
2008-10-17 09:28:52

Re: PENTRU CAP-IST

La 2008-10-17 04:19:50, Ion Caramache a scris:

> Domnul fost judecator Gheorghe Bozgan nu prea este la curent cu faptul
> ca o gramada de generali din Wehrmachr si din Waffen SS au fost
> judecati, gasiti vinovati si condamnati.
> Domnul fost judecator Gheorghe Bozgan este rugat sa citeasca lista de
> mai jos si, daca este cazul, este mai mult decit binevenit sa o
> conteste. Poate domnul fost judecator Gheorghe Bozgan sa dovedeasca
> fara nici-o indoiala ca lista de mai jos nu este reala?
> ******************************************************
> Generals convicted in Case No. 7 which closed at Nuremberg on 19th
> February, 1948.
>
> General Wilhelm LIST . Life imprisonment
> General Lothar RENDULIC. 20 years imprisonment
> Lt.-General Walter KUNTZE. Life imprisonment
> Lt.-General Helmuth FELMY.15 years imprisonment
> Lt.-General Hubert LANZ. 7 years imprisonment
> Lt.-General Ernst von LEYSER. 10 years imprisonment
> Lt.-General Wilhelm SPEIDE. 20 years imprisonment
>
> General ANDRAE. Former Commander-in-Chief in Crete. Sentenced to life
> imprisonment.
> General Nicola BELLOMO. Sentenced to death 28.7.45; shot on 11.9.45.
> Lieut.-General Friedrich BERNHARDT. Ex-Commander of the German Second
> Tank Army. Sentenced to death on 29.12.45, and hanged on that day.
> General Bruno BRAUER. Sentenced to death 9.12.46; shot on 20.5.47.
> Lieut.-General Karl BURCKHARDT. Ex-Commander of the Rear of Sixth
> Army. Sentenced to death in January, 1946, and hanged on the same
> day.
> Major General Peter CRASEMANN. Former Commander of 26 Panzer Division
> in Italy. Tried in April, 1947, sentenced to ten years’
> imprisonment.
> General DANCKELMANN. Sentenced to death.
> Major General Karl von DEWITZ KREBS. Sentenced to 25 years’
> imprisonment.
> General "Sepp" DIETRICH Waffen SS. Tried 1946, and sentenced to
> life imprisonment 11.7.46.
> Lieut.-General van DITFURT. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46 and hanged
> on the same day.
> General Anton DOSTLER. Former Commander of the 75th German Army Corps.
> Tried, found guilty and sentenced to death 12.10.45. Sentence
> confirmed. Executed 1.12.45.
> Kapitanleutnant Heinz ECK, of the German Navy. Ex-Commander of U-Boat
> 852. Tried, 17-20.10.45 for killing survivors of the crew of the
> steamship " Peleus." Found guilty and sentenced to death
> 20.10.45; sentence confirmed. Executed 23.11.45.
> Major General ERMANNSDORF. Sentenced to death in January, 1946,
> hanged on 6.2.46.
> General Nikolaus von FALKENHORST. Commander-in-Chief in Norway,
> sentenced to death 2.8.46 (sentence commuted to 20 years’
> imprisonment 3.12.46).
> General Hans FORTNER. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47; hanged on
> 27.2.47.
> General Kurt GALLENKAMP. Sentenced to be hanged 25.3.47. Sentence
> commuted to life imprisonment.
> Major General Hans GRAVENSTEIN. Commander of the 373rd (Tiger)
> Division. Sentenced to death 1.4.47.
> General Adolf HAMANN. Sentenced to death 26.12.46, hanged the same
> day.
> General Kurt HERZOG. Tried in 1947, and sentenced to 25 years’
> imprisonment.
> Lieut.-General Hans von HESSLIN. Sentenced to death by hanging on
> 27.7.47.
> General JAENECKE. 25.11.47 sentenced to 25 years imprisonment.
> Ex-Marshal Albert KESSELRING. Sentenced to death on 7.5.47. Sentence
> commuted to life imprisonment 4.7.47.
> General Josef KNEBLER. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47; hanged on
> 27.2.47.
> General Herbert KOESTLIN. Sentenced to life imprisonment 25.3.47
> (confirmed 14.5.47).
> Brig.-General Fritz KRAEMER. Waffen SS . Sentenced to death 11.7.46.
> General Ludwig KUEBLER. 27.7.47, Sentenced to death.
> General KUEPPER. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same
> day.
> General Alexander von LOEHR. Sentenced to death 16.2.47; shot
> 27.2.47.
> General Albert LONCAR. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47; hanged on
> 27.2.47.
> Lieut.-General Hartwig LUDWIGER. Sentenced to death on 1.4.47.
> General Eberhard von MACKENSEN. Sentenced to death by shooting on
> 30.11.46. (Sentence commuted to life imprisonment 4.7.47.)
> General Kurt MAELZER . Sentenced to death on 30.11.46. Sentence
> confirmed, but death penalty commuted to life imprisonment (4.7.47).
> Brigadier-General Kurt MEYER. Commander of the 12th SS. Panzer
> Division.. Sentenced to death 28.12.45 (commuted to life imprisonment
> 15.1.46.)
> Air Marshal Erhard MILCH. Crimes against Humanity - sentenced to life
> imprisonment 17.4.47.
> Lieut.-General DEJON von MOTETON. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged
> on the same day.
> General Friedrich MUELLER . Sentenced to death 9.12.46; shot on
> 20.5.47.
> General NEIDHOLT. Sentenced to death 16.2.47; hanged 27.2.47.
> Major-General Karl von OBERKAMP. Commander of Prinz Eugen SS Division.
> Sentenced to death and executed 1.4.47.
> Lieut.-General OCHSNER. Sentenced to 25 years’ imprisonment.
> Major-General PAUL. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same
> day.
> General Hermann PRIESS. Commanding 1st Panzer Corps. Sentenced 1 I
> .7.46.
> General von RAPPARD. Sentenced to death on 31.1.46, hanged on the
> same day.
> Major-General Heinrich REMLINGER. Sentenced to death. Hanged 5.1.46.
> Lieut.-General RICHERT. Sentenced to death; hanged on 6.2.46.
> Hellmuth von RUCKTESCHELL. Sentenced to 10 years imprisonment
> (commuted to 7 years’) 21.5.47.
> Lieut-General RUFF. Sentenced to death on 3.2.46, and hanged on the
> same day.
> General August SCHMIDT. Former Commander of the Waffen SS. Prinz Eugen
> Division No. 7. Sentenced to death on 16.2.47, and hanged on 27.2.47.
> General August SCHMIDT. Ex-commandant of Luftgau VI. Sentenced to life
> imprisonment in November, 1947.
> General SEEGERS. Sentenced to three years’ imprisonment on
> 11.7.46. Sentence confirmed 4.1.47.
> Lieut-General Max SIMON. Former Commander of 16 SS Division in Italy.
> Sentenced to death 26.6.47.
> Major-General von TSCHAMMER und OSTEN. Sentenced to death in January,
> 1946, hanged on the same day.
> Major-General WERTHER. Commander of the Coastal district. Sentenced to
> death on 3.2.46, hanged on the same day.
> Major-General K. WOLF. Sentenced on 25.3.47 to seven years’
> imprisonment. (Sentence confirmed 24.5.47.)
>
>

Ar trebui sa fie judecati si generalii evrei (adevarati criminali de razboi) care au ordonat bombardarea Libanului, ca sa nu mai spun de atrocitatile care se comit zilnic in teritoriile ocupate de armata israeliana.
Nu sunt aparator al securistilor, dar nu asa se face dreptate, bagandu-i la puscarie numai pe unii care sunt incomozi, pentru ca detin prea multe informatii, care trebuie sa fie ingropate definitiv.
Pe de alta parte, Chitac si Stanculescu nu sunt complet nevinovati. Chitac are pe constiinta (impreuna cu sefii lui, Iliescu si Roman) mortii de la 13-15 iunie 1990, iar Stanculescu a participat la complotul in urma caruia au fost asasinati Ceausestii.