Cultura

Evreii sint un popor vechi de cind lumea, ... prigoanele si persecutiile la care a fost supus nu sint egalate de nici un neam, ... faptul ca a supravietuit e o minune si un merit ...

Zici ca au tradat intotdeauna... Hai s-o luam pe prima, intitulata de tine:
1. regatul gotic din spania ...

Sec.II e.n. ...
Dupa inabusirea la Roma a revoltei Evreilor din 135 e.n., ``Jews fanned out in great numbers to Italy and Spain in the north and the African coast to the south. Spain [Sepharad] was one of the wealthiest provinces of the Roman Empire.
Its rich soil and moderate climate made it into Rome's granary. Other commerce included livestock and minerals. The great Roman highway and communication network facilitated the exchange of information among such widely dispersed people as the Jews.
So long as Rome was tolerant and prosperous, Jewish life flourished. ``
si tot asa ... vreo 300 de ani de inflorire si prosperitate...

Sec.IV, ...incep sa se strice lucrurile pentru evrei ...
soseste ``Crestinismul`` ...
``Deterioration of ancient Jewish life in Spain began in the fourth century with the decline of the Roman Empire and the adoption of Christianity as the state religion. Christianity defined itself as the successor to Judaism and ... conversion to Judaism became a capital crime!``

Sec.V ... triburile germanice (ariene) au cucerit Spania...
Visigotii in procesul de convertire la crestinism, s-au trezit conducind ``8 million Latin speaking Catholics`` ...si asa se facu ca la inceput evreii au fost apreciati fiindca erau folositi drept ``mediators between the foreign elite and the indigenous majority.`` Dar asta doar la inceput.
Gradual, cu fluctuatii, ... pe parcursul celor 200 de ani in Spania Vizigota, situatia evreilor s-a deteriorat simtitor, persecutiile si atrocitatile foarte asemanatoare cu cele de pe vremea nazismului, ... atacind insasi esenta si existenta neamului evreiesc ...

La inc. sec.VIII ... cind invazia musulmana era in plina floare ...
``The Jews of Spain had been utterly embittered and alienated by Catholic rule.
To them, the Moors were perceived as, and indeed were, a liberating force... In 711 a larger invading force arrived, and resistance quickly collapsed. Within four years almost all of Spain had capitulated, as did Sicily.``

DA, o Tzepesch, aici poti spune ca evreii dupa 200 de ani de persecutii, i-au tradat pe vizigoti, de fapt au intimpinat cu sperantza si au acordat intreg sprijinul venirii maurilor ...

Musulmanii nu erau un popor homogen, erau North African Berbers, Syrians, Egyptians, Yemenites, si au ocupat o Spanie formata din Crestini si Evrei ..., asa ca Califul din Damascus, conducatorul lumii Islamice, nu prea avea autoritate in Spania, cu diversitatea ei culturala si lingvistica ...
Asa ca pe cine sa se bazeze si pe cine sa-i foloseasca ??

``Jews who had fled the later decades of Visigothic persecution returned on the heels of the Islamic conquerors. Word soon spread of the vastly improved position of Jews in Spain and this set off a wave of immigration to the newly pacified country. Succeeding waves of Jewish immigration would transform Spain, and within 300 years it would replace Babylon as the spiritual center of Jewish thought.``

``Muslims were excluded from European markets and Christians were barred from Islamic waters. Only Jews could travel freely as commercial agents in both realms. And Jews were assured hospitality among other Jews living all along the trade routes. Jewish multilingualism further facilitated the expansion of trade. Because of their complex history, Jewish traders were able to converse in Hebrew, Arabic, Persian, Greek as well as the languages of the Franks, the Andalusians and the Slavs.
Hebrew of course, was the lingua franca of these Jewish traders and the Jewish communities they visited. ``

``The Jewish courtiers shared a cultural orientation and political ethos with the ruling Muslims. Their secular education was exceedingly broad and included astronomy, astrology, geometry, optics, calligraphy, rhetoric and language. When one went to see a court physician, the patient would be talking to a poet, philosopher, linguist as well as a physician.
And yet, Jewish sons were still expected to complete rigorous training in the Hebraic tradition, including Bible and Midrash, Hebrew language studies, Talmud and commentaries. A distinctively Sephardic characteristic was the ability to blend these separate academic traditions with sophistication and eloquence. Jews were well equipped to arbitrate between the mutually exclusive and hostile worlds of Christianity and Islam because they had lived in the very heartland of both worlds. They could just as easily mediate between the various and competing Christian kingdoms and likewise between Muslim principates.``

``This was a time of partial Jewish autonomy. As `dhimmis`,or `protected non-Muslims`, Jews in the Islamic world paid the jizya, which was administered separately from the zakat paid by Muslims. The jizya has been viewed variously as a poll tax, as payment for non-conscription in the military, or as a tribute. Jews were made to wear identifying clothing.
Nevertheless, Jews had their own legal system and social services. Monotheist religions of the people of the book were tolerated but conspicuously public displays of faith, such as bells and processions, were discouraged.``

Iar dupa 300 de ani, tot felul de batalii, intre sultani, in care volens-nolens se mai amestecau si evreii, apoi au urmat razbunarile si persecutiile islamice, obligativitatea convertirii la Islam, etc etc etc ... iar apoi au venit tot felul de Alphonsi si Ferdinanzi cu persecutii si atrocitati corespunzatoare ...
mai cititi si voi , ... ca e totul scris ... prin wikipedia si enciclopedii ...

DA, Tzepesh, ... un popor prigonit, ne-iubit, ...
insa utilizat in decursul istoriei de cei care au avut interese, din cauza abilitatilor sale, iar dupa folosintza, daca s-ar fi putut, ... l-ar fi inlaturat ...

dar nu s-a putut.

nici un alt popor nu a avut o astfel de soarta,
iar daca ar fi avut-o, nu ar fi reusit sa supravietuiasca unei astfel de soarte ...

pentru asta a ajuns sa fie respectat si chiar iubit ...


La 2008-01-05 01:18:26, vlad_tzepesch a scris:

> ... ca tovarashii au reusit sa nu se faca iubiti
> in nici o tzara pe unde s-au pripasit (fara exceptie si nu din cauza
> religiei).
> Mai mult au tradat tzara de bastina intotdeuna...
> Citeva doar:
>
> 1. regatul gotic din spania
> 2. polonia
> 3. tarile baltice
> 4. rusia.
> 5. germania
> 6. ungaria
> 7. romania-basarabia
>
> 2-6 s-au intimplat in secolul XX. ce a fost comunismul?
> Hellllooooooo....
> Si nu am pierdut mai mult de un minut.

When one went to see a court physician, the patient would be talking to a poet, philosopher, linguist as well as a physician.

Asta mi-a adus aminte de o intamplare din viata Sf. Vasile cel Mare.
El a avut o viata foarte aspra, de mare asceza si era extrem de rigid in
marea si cinstita lui credinta. Si totusi a avut un foarte bun prieten care
era evreu. Acesta era un medic exceptional, zice-se atat de priceput in arta
sa incat putea da diagnostice perfecte judecand doar (hmm... o mai fi
stiut el si alte secrete) dupa starea venelor.

La varsta de 48 de ani cand sfantul era in pragul mortii, prietenul lui doctorul
l-a consultat si i-a spus cu indrazneala ca nu mai prinde dimineata. Or fi discutat ei mai multe, cert este ca au ajuns sa faca o prinsoare: daca Vasile
ajunge si a doua zi, medicul va primi Botezul. Aici se vede ce multa incredere
avea el in mestesugul si cunoasterea lui.

Sf.Vasile a petrecut intreaga noapte in genunchi rugandu-se Celui Rastignit
nu pentru viata lui, ci pentru sufletul prietenului sau, ca ochii lui duhovnicesti
sa se deschida si el sa vada.

Cei doi s-au intalnit a doua zi, probabil ca au mai vorbit si medicul a primit Botezul din mana prietenului sau. Apoi, imediat sfantul s-a mutat de aici.
Era 1 ianuarie.

De ce nu citesti tu carti si istorii de-adevaratelea ?


La 2008-01-06 02:30:19, Seherezada a scris:

> Evreii sint un popor vechi de cind lumea, ... prigoanele si
> persecutiile la care a fost supus nu sint egalate de nici un neam, ...
> faptul ca a supravietuit e o minune si un merit ...
>
> Zici ca au tradat intotdeauna... Hai s-o luam pe prima, intitulata de
> tine:
> 1. regatul gotic din spania ...
>
> Sec.II e.n. ...
> Dupa inabusirea la Roma a revoltei Evreilor din 135 e.n., ``Jews
> fanned out in great numbers to Italy and Spain in the north and the
> African coast to the south. Spain [Sepharad] was one of the wealthiest
> provinces of the Roman Empire.
> Its rich soil and moderate climate made it into Rome's granary. Other
> commerce included livestock and minerals. The great Roman highway and
> communication network facilitated the exchange of information among
> such widely dispersed people as the Jews.
> So long as Rome was tolerant and prosperous, Jewish life flourished.
> ``
> si tot asa ... vreo 300 de ani de inflorire si prosperitate...
>
> Sec.IV, ...incep sa se strice lucrurile pentru evrei ...
> soseste ``Crestinismul`` ...
> ``Deterioration of ancient Jewish life in Spain began in the fourth
> century with the decline of the Roman Empire and the adoption of
> Christianity as the state religion. Christianity defined itself as the
> successor to Judaism and ... conversion to Judaism became a capital
> crime!``
>
> Sec.V ... triburile germanice (ariene) au cucerit Spania...
> Visigotii in procesul de convertire la crestinism, s-au trezit
> conducind ``8 million Latin speaking Catholics`` ...si asa se facu ca
> la inceput evreii au fost apreciati fiindca erau folositi drept
> ``mediators between the foreign elite and the indigenous majority.``
> Dar asta doar la inceput.
> Gradual, cu fluctuatii, ... pe parcursul celor 200 de ani in Spania
> Vizigota, situatia evreilor s-a deteriorat simtitor, persecutiile si
> atrocitatile foarte asemanatoare cu cele de pe vremea nazismului, ...
> atacind insasi esenta si existenta neamului evreiesc ...
>
> La inc. sec.VIII ... cind invazia musulmana era in plina floare ...
> ``The Jews of Spain had been utterly embittered and alienated by
> Catholic rule.
> To them, the Moors were perceived as, and indeed were, a liberating
> force... In 711 a larger invading force arrived, and resistance
> quickly collapsed. Within four years almost all of Spain had
> capitulated, as did Sicily.``
>
> DA, o Tzepesch, aici poti spune ca evreii dupa 200 de ani de
> persecutii, i-au tradat pe vizigoti, de fapt au intimpinat cu
> sperantza si au acordat intreg sprijinul venirii maurilor ...
>
> Musulmanii nu erau un popor homogen, erau North African Berbers,
> Syrians, Egyptians, Yemenites, si au ocupat o Spanie formata din
> Crestini si Evrei ..., asa ca Califul din Damascus, conducatorul lumii
> Islamice, nu prea avea autoritate in Spania, cu diversitatea ei
> culturala si lingvistica ...
> Asa ca pe cine sa se bazeze si pe cine sa-i foloseasca ??
>
> ``Jews who had fled the later decades of Visigothic persecution
> returned on the heels of the Islamic conquerors. Word soon spread of
> the vastly improved position of Jews in Spain and this set off a wave
> of immigration to the newly pacified country. Succeeding waves of
> Jewish immigration would transform Spain, and within 300 years it
> would replace Babylon as the spiritual center of Jewish thought.``
>
> ``Muslims were excluded from European markets and Christians were
> barred from Islamic waters. Only Jews could travel freely as
> commercial agents in both realms. And Jews were assured hospitality
> among other Jews living all along the trade routes. Jewish
> multilingualism further facilitated the expansion of trade. Because of
> their complex history, Jewish traders were able to converse in Hebrew,
> Arabic, Persian, Greek as well as the languages of the Franks, the
> Andalusians and the Slavs.
> Hebrew of course, was the lingua franca of these Jewish traders and
> the Jewish communities they visited. ``
>
> ``The Jewish courtiers shared a cultural orientation and political
> ethos with the ruling Muslims. Their secular education was exceedingly
> broad and included astronomy, astrology, geometry, optics,
> calligraphy, rhetoric and language. When one went to see a court
> physician, the patient would be talking to a poet, philosopher,
> linguist as well as a physician.
> And yet, Jewish sons were still expected to complete rigorous training
> in the Hebraic tradition, including Bible and Midrash, Hebrew language
> studies, Talmud and commentaries. A distinctively Sephardic
> characteristic was the ability to blend these separate academic
> traditions with sophistication and eloquence. Jews were well equipped
> to arbitrate between the mutually exclusive and hostile worlds of
> Christianity and Islam because they had lived in the very heartland of
> both worlds. They could just as easily mediate between the various and
> competing Christian kingdoms and likewise between Muslim
> principates.``
>
> ``This was a time of partial Jewish autonomy. As `dhimmis`,or
> `protected non-Muslims`, Jews in the Islamic world paid the jizya,
> which was administered separately from the zakat paid by Muslims. The
> jizya has been viewed variously as a poll tax, as payment for
> non-conscription in the military, or as a tribute. Jews were made to
> wear identifying clothing.
> Nevertheless, Jews had their own legal system and social services.
> Monotheist religions of the people of the book were tolerated but
> conspicuously public displays of faith, such as bells and processions,
> were discouraged.``
>
> Iar dupa 300 de ani, tot felul de batalii, intre sultani, in care
> volens-nolens se mai amestecau si evreii, apoi au urmat razbunarile si
> persecutiile islamice, obligativitatea convertirii la Islam, etc etc
> etc ... iar apoi au venit tot felul de Alphonsi si Ferdinanzi cu
> persecutii si atrocitati corespunzatoare ...
> mai cititi si voi , ... ca e totul scris ... prin wikipedia si
> enciclopedii ...
>
> DA, Tzepesh, ... un popor prigonit, ne-iubit, ...
> insa utilizat in decursul istoriei de cei care au avut interese, din
> cauza abilitatilor sale, iar dupa folosintza, daca s-ar fi putut, ...
> l-ar fi inlaturat ...
>
> dar nu s-a putut.
>
> nici un alt popor nu a avut o astfel de soarta,
> iar daca ar fi avut-o, nu ar fi reusit sa supravietuiasca unei astfel
> de soarte ...
>
> pentru asta a ajuns sa fie respectat si chiar iubit ...
>
>
> La 2008-01-05 01:18:26, vlad_tzepesch a scris:
>
> > ... ca tovarashii au reusit sa nu se faca iubiti
> > in nici o tzara pe unde s-au pripasit (fara exceptie si nu din cauza
> > religiei).
> > Mai mult au tradat tzara de bastina intotdeuna...
> > Citeva doar:
> >
> > 1. regatul gotic din spania
> > 2. polonia
> > 3. tarile baltice
> > 4. rusia.
> > 5. germania
> > 6. ungaria
> > 7. romania-basarabia
> >
> > 2-6 s-au intimplat in secolul XX. ce a fost comunismul?
> > Hellllooooooo....
> > Si nu am pierdut mai mult de un minut.
>
>

La 2008-01-06 04:56:33, briel a scris:

<< Cei doi s-au intalnit a doua zi, probabil ca au mai vorbit si medicul a primit Botezul din mana prietenului sau. Apoi, imediat sfantul s-a mutat de aici. > Era 1 ianuarie.>>
---------
O fi fost sfintul Bo-Boteaza ...

La 2008-01-06 06:04:42, Bongosika a scris:

> De ce nu citesti tu carti si istorii de-adevaratelea ?
>
---------
... fiindca alea ale tale, nu sint adevarate !