Externe

traktorist
2005-12-17 01:59:51

Se poate tovarasi ! Se poate !

Democratia se instaleaza in Irak ca o closhca pe cuibar.
Cica Iraqienii nu au nevoie de democratie.....ziceau precupetele de pe Forum.
fara aceasta interventie chirurgicala in Lumea araba, Irakienii singuri niciodata nu mai scapau de ciuma comunista.
Saddam e ca mortul care nu se mai intoarce de la groapa.
Degeaba tovarase Chirak, Schrudel si Pantofarul Spaniei.... Degeaba ! V-a demonstrat ( IAR ) Bush ce inseamna clasa, Cu fapte , nu de dat cu clantza si de dat din labe.
Acum aratati voi mult promisa " diplomatique avec Iranique " !

Sustinatorii comunismului in Frunte cu Cristinique care ne dadea citate din gazete Americanique da in boala lu' Kanaki.
Katty se apuca de crosetat si Lucidu' se tulbura !

Eugen din Texas
2005-12-17 07:47:20

Alegerile din Iraq

Se pare ca Bush stia ce vrea si a facut ce stia ca va aduce democratie poporului Iraqian. Acum problema se pune ca daca aceasta democratie tanara se va si invechi - in sensul ca va dainui - si alte state arabe vor vrea sa o aiba. Si se va putea democratiza incet, incet intreaga lume araba... ceeace va aduce beneficii intregii lumi.
In acele momente, probabil ca de Bush, nu va mai vorbi nimeni, dar rezultatele actiunilor lui, vor fi benefice pentru popoarele arabe !

traktorist
2005-12-17 17:17:59

S-a dat cu flit !

La 2005-12-17 07:47:20, Eugen din Texas a scris:

> Se pare ca Bush stia ce vrea si a facut ce stia ca va aduce democratie
> poporului Iraqian. Acum problema se pune ca daca aceasta democratie
> tanara se va si invechi - in sensul ca va dainui - si alte state
> arabe vor vrea sa o aiba. Si se va putea democratiza incet, incet
> intreaga lume araba... ceeace va aduce beneficii intregii lumi.
> In acele momente, probabil ca de Bush, nu va mai vorbi nimeni, dar
> rezultatele actiunilor lui, vor fi benefice pentru popoarele arabe !
> 
A disparut precupetzele care dadeau cu gura ca ce a zis Boston Globe, michael Moore si Sergentul Murtha, congressman-ul care e atit de bombalau ca a votat impotriva propunerii facute de el de retragere imediata si neconditionata din Iraq. Iraq are 18 provincii si scandal era numai in 3. Media se straduia sa dea stirile numai de acolo. La alegeri a iesit de la cutie un alt irak, nevazut de miruna si Ileana lu' cornea care citea ce scria in Washington Post.
S-a dat cu flit !

garboveanu
2005-12-17 18:27:28

Re: Se poate tovarasi ! Se poate !

La 2005-12-17 01:59:51, traktorist a scris:

>  Democratia se instaleaza in Irak ca o closhca pe
> cuibar.
> Cica Iraqienii nu au nevoie de democratie.....ziceau
> precupetele de pe Forum.
> fara aceasta interventie chirurgicala in Lumea araba,
> Irakienii singuri niciodata nu mai scapau de ciuma comunista.
> Saddam e ca mortul care nu se mai intoarce de la groapa.
> Degeaba tovarase Chirak, Schrudel si Pantofarul Spaniei....
> Degeaba ! V-a demonstrat ( IAR ) Bush ce inseamna clasa, Cu
>  fapte , nu de dat cu clantza si de dat din labe.
> Acum aratati voi mult promisa " diplomatique avec
> Iranique " !
> 
> Sustinatorii comunismului in Frunte cu Cristinique care ne
> dadea citate din gazete Americanique da in boala lu'
> Kanaki.
> Katty se apuca de crosetat si Lucidu' se tulbura !
> 
> 
Da! Numai ca si "democratiile" populare din Europa au fost impuse cu tancurile.Au fost emanatia unor alegeri in conditi de ocupatie militara;Cu ajutorul "consilierilor"etc.Exportrile de democratii, pe calea armelor, sau dovedit viabile si stabile, in timp, numai in masura in care au fost insotite de ajutor economic, din partea tari (tarilor) care fac exportul, si urmate de o reala,sanatoasa si continua dezvoltare economica, sociala si politica.

Paul din Ohio
2005-12-17 20:15:24

Re: Se poate tovarasi ! Se poate ! Da garbovene, dar nu uita

ca democratiile "populare' au fost impuse de Rusia, pe cind DEMOCRATIILE din Germania, Japonia si din alte parti au fost impuse de America. Tot cu tancurile, numai ca in Romania la 6 Martie 1945 rezultatele votului "liber' au fost pur si simplu INVERSATE de puterea ocupanta.La 2005-12-17 18:27:28, garboveanu a scris:


> >
> Da! Numai ca si "democratiile" populare din Europa au fost
> impuse cu tancurile.Au fost emanatia unor alegeri in conditi de
> ocupatie militara;Cu ajutorul "consilierilor"etc.Exportrile
> de democratii, pe calea armelor, sau dovedit viabile si stabile, in
> timp, numai in masura in care au fost insotite de ajutor economic,
> din partea tari (tarilor) care fac exportul, si urmate de o
> reala,sanatoasa si continua dezvoltare economica, sociala si
> politica.
>

CONU
2005-12-18 02:53:48

Sgt Scorpion's Exit Strategy for Iraq __ Point of view __ from Iraq

As I begin this essay, I hope you have either read my overview of the history of Iraq, or have knowledge of Iraq's history because the future always lies in looking at the past.


That said, and before I commence, let me state that I personally do not believe that the United States has any intention of leaving Iraq. From being here, I can tell you how they are building up bases, making more permanent structures, paving roads, and constantly endeavoring to improve the lives of troops stationed here.

The following essay is simply an idea I have for the removal of American troops from Iraq…if that is what the Administration genuinely desires.

The history of Iraq as we know it today is only a few generations old. The State of Iraq was carved out of the Ottoman Empire by the League of Nations directly after World War I as one of the spoils for the British. Therefore, there are no long ties or emotions to Iraq being a country as it is now. The Iraqi people are very much diversified and do not feel the same patriotic sentiment that Americans experience.

Since the Babylonia Empire, different countries and empires have ruled this region. The Persians, Greeks, Romans, Ottomans, and most recently, the British, have been the rulers of this area. However, in real life, the people here are truly governed by local sheiks, religious leaders, local businessmen, but mostly by tribal and family elders. There is no history of government unity. They simply don't have the same idea of government as we do, nor do they care to for the most part.

In Iraq, there are three main factions. The Shiites make up the vast majority and mostly inhabit the Southern regions of Iraq. The Sunnis are next, and although much less in number, they hold the power, wealth and influence. They are densely populated in and around Baghdad and throughout Central Iraq. Finally, in the North are the Kurds. They are not Arabs and align themselves closer to Turkey than Iraq. They are all Muslim, but vary greatly.

For centuries these three groups have struggled against one and another for power. These age-old arguments are still raging today in our current efforts to give them a Constitution. Issues such as women's rights, percentage of rule, and distribution of wealth, mostly from the oil, are issues deep at the heart of the different factions and they simply refuse to agree.

Therefore, I suggest that we split the country into three parts, making each one-third a separate sovereignty with its own rule and autonomous government. As I said earlier in this essay, there are no deeply held ideologies here that Iraq should be one country.

That said, I want to make the point that I am under no illusions that this plan will bring peace to Iraq. These battles have been waging for centuries and they will continue. The Sunnis would soon dispute the borders, the Kurds would want more oil revenue, and issues of personal freedom, the woman's role in society and government, and others would once again raise their ugly head.

I have spoken to many educated, articulate, and politically-minded Iraqis about this solution and they all agree that in the long term, it will not work. When I have asked them what will work they all answer the same…a Civil War must be fought here.

My plan would not bring peace, but it would be the right thing for us to do, as well as give us the window to leave Iraq. These people would have a fresh start and the road they travel down in the future would be in their hands. America would have done what it intended from the start. We have taken down the terrible dictatorship, we have given the Iraqis peace, (if only temporary) we have given them freedom and a constitution. Our work would be finished and we can leave satisfied with a job well done and as successful to the rest of the world.

In this part of the world, as in many others, leadership has always simply come down to who has the biggest stick. That is the way it will be again, a Civil War here is inevitable. We should leave and let it happen, knowing we did the best that could have been done.

Sergeant Scorpion
US Army Reserves
Iraq
17 September, 2005

traktorist
2005-12-18 07:07:57

Re: Sgt Scorpion's Exit Strategy for Iraq __ Point of view __ from Iraq

La 2005-12-18 02:53:48, CONU a scris:

> As I begin this essay,

Coada vacii cu stampila primariei !
Ce va tot stropshitzi atita ! Inghititzi galusca !
Ca va fi razboi civil, ca se bate omul cu femeia lui..... si alte scenarii asemanatoare....
Povestea cu cazutul drobului de sare peste copil a fost rezolvata in sec 19 =lea.

Alegerile de fiecare data au aratat ca sintetzi lunatici. Si nu mai da citate in limbi straine , ca nu impresionati pe nimeni. Ca ati umplut aici cu citate de la Al Gore Citire, la Michael Moore, Chiraq si tot neamul lui cel adormit ! Srieti romaneste ! Mai caprarilor !

Katty
2005-12-18 16:11:24

Re: Se poate tovarasi ! Se poate !

La 2005-12-17 01:59:51, traktorist a scris:

>  Democratia se instaleaza in Irak ca o closhca pe
> cuibar.
> Cica Iraqienii nu au nevoie de democratie.....ziceau
> precupetele de pe Forum.
> fara aceasta interventie chirurgicala in Lumea araba,
> Irakienii singuri niciodata nu mai scapau de ciuma comunista.
> Saddam e ca mortul care nu se mai intoarce de la groapa.
> Degeaba tovarase Chirak, Schrudel si Pantofarul Spaniei....
> Degeaba ! V-a demonstrat ( IAR ) Bush ce inseamna clasa, Cu
>  fapte , nu de dat cu clantza si de dat din labe.
> Acum aratati voi mult promisa " diplomatique avec
> Iranique " !
> 
> Sustinatorii comunismului in Frunte cu Cristinique care ne
> dadea citate din gazete Americanique da in boala lu'
> Kanaki.
> Katty se apuca de crosetat si Lucidu' se tulbura !
> 
> 


Ha, ha, ha de care democratie vorbesti tractoristule ? De aia in care traiesti in USA si care lipseste cu desavisire ? Pai nu tu ne tot spui ca USA nu este o democratie ? Atunci de ce folosesti astfel de cuvinte ?

traktorist
2005-12-18 17:09:51

E vorba de Iraq ! Cocaona !

> 
> Ha, ha, ha de care democratie vorbesti tractoristule ? De aia in care
> traiesti in USA si care lipseste cu desavisire ? Pai nu tu ne tot
> spui ca USA nu este o democratie ? Atunci de ce folosesti astfel de
> cuvinte ?
> 
> 
US este o REPUBLICA. Democratia se bazeaza pe hotarirea majoritatii. Oricine stie ca 60 % din oameni sint prosti sau nu ai baza pe gindirea lor.
Iuropa este o democratie si Romania la fel. US este mai sofisticata. Ca de asta se cheama US. Si US este o Republica.
Pina ajung si altii asa sus, mai trece multa apa pe Sena si Elba.

CONU
2005-12-18 17:50:24

Tovarase traktor,.... citeste atent,...

....se pare ca nu ai inteles nimic. Punctul de vedere al sergentului este cu total diferit de ceea ce ai inteles tu. ....si nu are nimic de-a fae cu ceea ce ai scris mai jos.

Bafta la arat !

La 2005-12-18 07:07:57, traktorist a scris:

> La 2005-12-18 02:53:48, CONU a scris:
> 
> > As I begin this essay,
> 
>  Coada vacii cu stampila primariei !
> Ce va tot stropshitzi atita ! Inghititzi galusca !
> Ca va fi razboi civil, ca se bate omul cu femeia
> lui..... si alte scenarii asemanatoare....
> Povestea cu cazutul drobului de sare peste copil a fost
> rezolvata in sec 19 =lea.
> 
>  Alegerile de fiecare data au aratat ca
> sintetzi lunatici. Si nu mai da citate in limbi straine ,
> ca nu impresionati pe nimeni. Ca ati umplut aici cu citate
> de la Al Gore Citire, la Michael Moore, Chiraq si tot neamul
> lui cel adormit ! Srieti romaneste ! Mai caprarilor !
>