Externe

Oriana
2005-08-11 03:49:47

f. instructive pasajele trimise, ca sa ne facem o idee si mai precisa

La 2005-08-11 00:46:32, evreu mandru din israel a scris:

> O fraza dintr-o scrisoare scrisa de Katty in anul 1984....
> 
> PS. Problema comunismului in Romania este problema romanilor. Regimul
> nedorit o sa cada cind or sa vrea romanii. Deocamdata nu am vazut pe
> nimeni sa se rascoale.
> 
> 
> La 2005-08-10 23:57:25, Katty a scris:
> 
> >  PS. Problema democratiei in Iran este problema iranienilor. Regimul
> > nedorit o sa cada cind or sa vrea iranienii. Deocamdata nu am vazut
> > pe nimeni sa se rascoale.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

Oriana
2005-08-11 03:53:33

stai tranquillo, am neamuri pasnice eu

La 2005-08-11 00:09:05, neamtu tiganu a scris:

> Senzational...nu stiam ca Oriana e nepotu lu Komeini...esti sugura?
> 

Oriana
2005-08-11 03:57:05

Pipinei de europeni? pigmei

doar Blair ma convinge, Chirac se stie cu cine sta, n-am inteles ce cauta Schroeder?


La 2005-08-11 00:49:08, Dan Bostan a scris:

> Acum s-a vazut cu cit succes au negociat "puterile" europene
> cu jigodiile de mulahi.
> Adevarul e ca as fi preferat ca Iranul sa fie pioiritatea 1 si Iraqul,
> prioritatea 2....
> Invers e mai greu.
> 

Dan Bostan
2005-08-11 04:01:07

De asta nu s-a aflat adevarul pina acum

http://www.washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20040415-094758-5267r

The Washington Times

www.washingtontimes.com

Jamie Gorelick's wall
Published April 16, 2004
The disclosure that Jamie Gorelick, a member of the September 11 commission, was personally responsible for instituting a key obstacle to cooperation between law enforcement and intelligence operations before the terrorist attacks raises disturbing questions about the integrity of the commission itself. Ms. Gorelick should not be cross-examining witnesses; instead, she should be required to testify about her own behavior under oath. Specifically, commission members need to ask her about a 1995 directive she wrote that made it more difficult for the FBI to locate two of the September 11 hijackers who had already entered the country by the summer of 2001.
On Tuesday, Attorney General John Ashcroft declassified a four-page directive sent by Ms. Gorelick (the No. 2 official in the Clinton Justice Department) on March 4, 1995, to FBI Director Louis Freeh and Mary Jo White, the New York-based U.S. attorney investigating the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. In the memo, Ms. Gorelick ordered Mr. Freeh and Ms. White to follow information-sharing procedures that "go beyond what is legally required," in order to avoid "any risk of creating an unwarranted appearance" that the Justice Department was using Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrants, instead of ordinary criminal investigative procedures, in an effort to undermine the civil liberties of terrorism suspects.
At issue was the oft-noted wall of separation that prevented counterterrorism agents and federal prosecutors from communicating with one another prior to September 11. Information collected under special FISA warrants, which do not require a probable cause, was generally not to be shared with personnel responsible for enforcing federal criminal laws -- where probable cause must be demonstrated for a warrant to be issued. As lawyers David Rivkin and Lee Casey noted on our Op-Ed page yesterday, the practical effect of the wall was that counterintelligence information was generally kept away from law enforcement personnel who were investigating al Qaeda activities. But Ms. Gorelick's memo clearly indicated that the Clinton administration had decided as a matter of policy to go even beyond the law's already stringent requirements in order to further choke off information sharing.
As Mr. Ashcroft noted during his testimony before the September 11 commission, all of this had a devastating effect into the investigation of al Qaeda operations in this country in the summer of 2001. For example, in late August, when the CIA told the FBI that Khalid Almidhar and Nawaf Alhazmi had entered the country, FBI investigators refused to permit criminal investigators with considerable knowledge about the most recent al Qaeda attack to join the manhunt. Also, a criminal search warrant to examine the computer of Zacarias Moussaoui, whose interest in flying aircraft had attracted attention, was rejected because FBI officials were afraid of breaching the wall.
Ms. Gorelick has been among the most partisan and aggressive Democratic panel members in questioning the anti-terror efforts of the Bush administration. The nation deserves a full accounting from Ms. Gorelick of why the Clinton administration felt it necessary to go the extra mile in order to hamper the capability of law enforcement and intelligence agents to talk to one another. If Ms. Gorelick fails to provide this, her actions would bring into serious doubt the credibility of the commission.




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Oriana
2005-08-11 04:03:39

Roxy, lasa propaganda, mergi pe Liberation

ce tot te legi de americani in sus, americani in jos, vezi-ti de Franta ta.

La 2005-08-11 01:16:53, Roxana a scris:

> La 2005-08-10 23:17:42, progitmo a scris:
> 
> > Orice om normal ramane impietrit de tupeul "negociatoilor"
> > iranieni.
> > Unica solutie de tratare cu Teheranul este cea militara si cu cat mai
> > repede cu atat mai bine pentru lumea civilizata.
> >
> 
> 
>  Dvs. chiar credeti ca pregatiti "opinia publica"...
>  de pe forum cu astfel de fraze ?
>  Tupeul cel mai monstruos se afla la Casa Dalba.
>  Ei sînt campionii absoluti la toate categoriile.
>  Persii sînt niste amatori pe lînga un Perle, un
>  Rumsfeld, etc. Pe Bush nu l-am numit pentru ca
>  el nu prea întelege ce se întîmpla....:-)) cu
> politica
>  externa a Statelor Unite. El este un nevinovat în
>  materie...:-))) un fel de " Marie couche - toi là
> " ...:-))))
> 

Oriana
2005-08-11 04:06:51

complicitatea Suediei cu nazistii? nu-i convine, renteaza mai mult americanii

La 2005-08-11 01:50:39, colibri a scris:

> Katty, ce spui de pozitia suediei in al doliea razboi mondial? Este
> singura tara europeana care a facut afaceri si cu Nazi Germany si cu
> aliatii. Mai mult de atat, fara minereurile de fier din Suedia,
> Germania nu ar fi putut incepe razboiul:
> 
> "Sweden absolutely sold materials to the Germans along with
> allowing Germany to use its railways and even helped the Germans move
> war material across Sweden.
> 
> And at the end of the war Sweden cashed in on the rebuilding money.
> "
> 
> "For Germany, the import of Swedish iron-ore was of extreme
> importance in its attempts to rebuild its military strength, despite
> the stipulations presented in the Treaty of Versailles. Prior to the
> Second World War, Germany was able to supply itself with only a
> quarter of its total iron-ore consumption per year, with the rest
> being imported from other countries. Sweden provided up to almost 60
> percent of the iron-ore that was imported into Germany. Without the
> sixty percent of iron-ore imports coming from Sweden, Germany might
> possibly have not been capable of initiating the Second World War. In
> 1940, iron-ore imports from Sweden as well as Norway constituted
> 11,550,000 of the 15,000,000 tons Germany consumed that year"
> 

> 

Oriana
2005-08-11 04:11:59

dar de ce nu te duci tu in Iran, ca te dai mai "matur" decat Bush?

eroul nuclear? poate vrei sa zici imbecilul nuclear



> Iata roadele politicii infantile a americii in relatia cu islamul : a
> creat "eroul nuclear" , in jurul caruia se vor aduna
> de-acum multimile de martiri voluntari pentru apararea unui dumnezeu
> care ,daca pentru noi e strain , pentru ei e Tatal - unic si drept -
> , in timp ce noi avem pe stindardele de lupta "libertate" ,
> ei au "dreptate" ; D-le bush du-te si incearca sa dregi ce
> se mai poate drege , sau pur si simplu : du-te !
> 

Phil
2005-08-11 04:23:36

este aici...

unu Dan Bostan care a intins 20 de cearceafuri, sint curios daca cineva le-a citit pe toate, poate doar vedeta noastra Kkaty care tot nu ar intelege ceva pt ca este prea inteligenta.

Val
2005-08-11 04:47:01

Re: Intregul record / Da si cei cu asta ????

Bai, asta e congres. Acolo se da la gioale pe rupte, mai rau ca la hockei.
Tov. vorbitor, detine imunitate asa ca daca debiteaza vreo prostie, sursa e de vina.

Ca inteligentei ii lipseste "inteligenta" nu mai e o noutate de mult, exceptindul pe mos si traktor. Toate socotelile de acasa nu s-au confirmat pe teren.

Restul, cauze, motive, vinovati asta nu tov vorbitor e cel care sa decida. Politic o va face oricum, aratind cu degetul peste gard. Dar asta e meseria lui.

PS.
Nu crezi ca un simplu link era suficient ???
Ce te-ai entuziasmat asa ???


La 2005-08-11 03:38:38, Dan Bostan a scris:

> Congressional Record: June 27, 2005 (House)
> Page H5243-H5250
> 
> US Intelligence
> 
> 
> http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2005_cr/s062705.html
> 

Val
2005-08-11 05:43:21

Re: este aici...

Bucura-te, ca pe mine m-a trimis la un ziar sa ma "documentez".
Problema era ca nu le mergea serverul. Poate au uitat sa-si plateasca bilul de curent.


La 2005-08-11 04:23:36, Phil a scris:

> unu Dan Bostan care a intins 20 de cearceafuri, sint curios daca
> cineva le-a citit pe toate, poate doar vedeta noastra Kkaty care tot
> nu ar intelege ceva pt ca este prea inteligenta.
> 

laur
2005-08-11 06:23:12

si nu asa s-a rezolvat ?Re: f. instructive pasajele trimise, ca sa ne facem o idee si mai precisa

Au venoit puscasii marini sa il scoata din ascunzatoare pe Ceasca ?

A bombardat NATO Ro pana s-a predat dictatorul ?

Sau la Inter au murit doar trupele speciala ale UAS si nu ROMANI.

Te roade tare ca la caderea lui nu ai fost sio marines-ii sa faca figuratie sai sa isi asume meritele ?

Nu ca ar fi bine da asa au mers , merg si o sa merga lucrurilel si vorba ceea "sangeel martirilor va sfintii libertatea dobandita "

Sangele lor si nu voma regurgitata la comanda de vidanjele de serviciu.


La 2005-08-11 03:49:47, Oriana a scris:

> La 2005-08-11 00:46:32, evreu mandru din israel a scris:
> 
> > O fraza dintr-o scrisoare scrisa de Katty in anul 1984....
> > 
> > PS. Problema comunismului in Romania este problema romanilor. Regimul
> > nedorit o sa cada cind or sa vrea romanii. Deocamdata nu am vazut pe
> > nimeni sa se rascoale.
> > 
> > 
> > La 2005-08-10 23:57:25, Katty a scris:
> > 
> > >  PS. Problema democratiei in Iran este problema iranienilor. Regimul
> > > nedorit o sa cada cind or sa vrea iranienii. Deocamdata nu am vazut
> > > pe nimeni sa se rascoale.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

Doro
2005-08-11 06:44:46

Re: 90% din partidul democrat sunt liberali ca dealfel toate rudele lui Roy sunt liberali cu diploma

La 2005-08-11 04:01:07, Dan Bostan a scris:

> Pentru a lamurii spiretele trebue sa mentionezi ca majoritatea politicienilor cu gandire liberala in America provin din randul partidului democratic care sunt influentati de cercurile de influenta. Liberalism inseamna spaga ,minciuni,mita ,diversiune sociala si politica ,influenta in puterea de stat si federala. Acesti politicieni liberali sunt sustinuti de cercurile de influenta care au diferite organizatii de culegere de date si transcrise pentru a actiona politic. La fel justitia ,invatamantul ,uniunea muncii, politia sunt conduse de cercurile de influenta care sunt finantati de partidul democrat .

laur
2005-08-11 07:07:38

Memoriile lui Jukov WWII Re: Exact, "Sifiliticii astia sinucigasi au FOST INVENTAZI ACOLO"

Extras din memeoriile lui Jukov ref asaltul asupra Berlinului operation

"Am decis ca in fata pozitiilor protejate de campuri de mine sa nu ne oprim si sa procedam la deminare care ne-ar fi intraziat ci sa continuam ofensiva pierderile suferite inregistrandu-le ca echivalente situatiei in care respectiva pozitie ar fi fost aparata cu trupe ."

alte extrase semnificative despre alte batalii coordonate de acelasi Jukov maresalul pe cal alb de la parada victoriei din octombrie 1945

"Speranta medie de viata a unui sioldat rus pe frontul Stalingradului = 2 zile "

"Numarul real al soldatilor rusi morti in batalia de la Stalingrad conform ultimelor descoperile ale gropilor comune tinute secret de regimul sovietic se ridica al ~1 milion . Numarul mortilor a fost tinut secret pentru a nu umbri victoria cu indoieli asupra necesitatii ca toti cei care si-au dat viata in lupta sa fi fost cu adevarat folositori "

"Doar in prima linie a atacului soldatii rusi aveau arme cei din linia a doau si a treia trebuiau sa le culeaga de la soldatii morti" menorii ale soldatilor nemti in balalia de la Viazma

Ilustri predecesori intradevar , necazul este ca au avut succes in final cu metodelel lor criminale. Razboiul e o crima impotriva propriilor soldati sau ai inamicul tot o crima este .

Desculti si cu cheia de gat sau fara arme tu cum preferi sa vitejesti?


> "Farul islamului" a decretat ca martiriul indiferent a cui,
> nu-l jigneste pe Allah, ba dimpotriva, asa o jertfa va fi
> recompensata.
> 
> Asta a pornit cam in perioada razboiului cu Irak. Am citit o carte
> despre viata si toate ispravile lui Saddam (scrisa de egipteanul
> Magdi Allam) in care erau capitole precise cu desfasurarea
> contextului belic in Iran si Irak: impresionant.
> M-am in-gro-zit ce am citit despre Iran, de miile de copii trimisi pe
> front descultz, flamanzi, dar cu o cheie de tabla - cica a
> paradisului - atarnata la gat. Sareau in aer ca mustele pe minele
> irakiene. Nu mai zic de viata poporului, dizumana, inconcepibila pt.
> persoane libere ca noi.
> 
> In plus, intr-o alta carte, "Interviu cu istoria" de
> Fallaci, cu personaje celebre de la Kissinger, la Arafat, la sahul
> Persiei, etc, printre care un interviu si cu Khomeini. Merita de
> citit. Ceea ce se intampla in zilele noastre era deja programat,
> mutra asta care umbla cu fofarlica atomica, e creatia lui Khomeini,
> deci va proceda exact ca el.
> 
> 
> La 2005-08-11 03:08:10, Mos Grigore a scris:
> 
> > 
> > PS. Sifiliticii astia sinucigasi au FOST INVENTAZI ACOLO. Cind am sa
> > am ceva de scanat diapozitive am sa-tii arat la defilare: mii de copii
> > si batrini! 
> > 

ionion
2005-08-11 07:46:32

Am studiat din punct de vedere teritoriul iranian si am ajuns la

concluzia ca se pot infiinta 7 state state independente pe teritoriul
de azi.
Ar fi si mai bine , sa va explic de ce : teritoriul este foarte mare
iar conducatorii sunt prea scunzi sa cuprinda dintr-o vedere
tot teritoriul !
Scurt pe doi !

miki de la kapital
2005-08-11 10:24:31

Re: Am studiat din punct de vedere teritoriul iranian si am ajuns la

am studiat teritoriul SUA si mi-au iesit 50 + WA DC.

serios-glumetul
2005-08-11 11:35:51

BA DA DA CE ,DA CE BA?

BA BRE DA CE BA ?

Oriana
2005-08-11 14:27:35

Laur, e vorba de Iran, nu de rusi, nazisti, revolutionari- faci confuzie

La 2005-08-11 07:07:38, laur a scris:

> Extras din memeoriile lui Jukov ref asaltul asupra Berlinului
> operation
> 
> "Am decis ca in fata pozitiilor protejate de campuri de mine sa
> nu ne oprim si sa procedam la deminare care ne-ar fi intraziat ci sa
> continuam ofensiva pierderile suferite inregistrandu-le ca
> echivalente situatiei in care respectiva pozitie ar fi fost aparata
> cu trupe ."
> 
> alte extrase semnificative despre alte batalii coordonate de acelasi
> Jukov maresalul pe cal alb de la parada victoriei din octombrie 1945
> 
> 
> "Speranta medie de viata a unui sioldat rus pe frontul
> Stalingradului = 2 zile "
> 
> "Numarul real al soldatilor rusi morti in batalia de la
> Stalingrad conform ultimelor descoperile ale gropilor comune tinute
> secret de regimul sovietic se ridica al ~1 milion . Numarul mortilor
> a fost tinut secret pentru a nu umbri victoria cu indoieli asupra
> necesitatii ca toti cei care si-au dat viata in lupta sa fi fost cu
> adevarat folositori "
> 
> "Doar in prima linie a atacului soldatii rusi aveau arme cei din
> linia a doau si a treia trebuiau sa le culeaga de la soldatii
> morti" menorii ale soldatilor nemti in balalia de la Viazma
> 
> Ilustri predecesori intradevar , necazul este ca au avut succes in
> final cu metodelel lor criminale. Razboiul e o crima impotriva
> propriilor soldati sau ai inamicul tot o crima este .
> 
> Desculti si cu cheia de gat sau fara arme tu cum preferi sa
> vitejesti?
> 
> 
> > "Farul islamului" a decretat ca martiriul indiferent a cui,
> > nu-l jigneste pe Allah, ba dimpotriva, asa o jertfa va fi
> > recompensata.
> > 
> > Asta a pornit cam in perioada razboiului cu Irak. Am citit o carte
> > despre viata si toate ispravile lui Saddam (scrisa de egipteanul
> > Magdi Allam) in care erau capitole precise cu desfasurarea
> > contextului belic in Iran si Irak: impresionant.
> > M-am in-gro-zit ce am citit despre Iran, de miile de copii trimisi pe
> > front descultz, flamanzi, dar cu o cheie de tabla - cica a
> > paradisului - atarnata la gat. Sareau in aer ca mustele pe minele
> > irakiene. Nu mai zic de viata poporului, dizumana, inconcepibila pt.
> > persoane libere ca noi.
> > 
> > In plus, intr-o alta carte, "Interviu cu istoria" de
> > Fallaci, cu personaje celebre de la Kissinger, la Arafat, la sahul
> > Persiei, etc, printre care un interviu si cu Khomeini. Merita de
> > citit. Ceea ce se intampla in zilele noastre era deja programat,
> > mutra asta care umbla cu fofarlica atomica, e creatia lui Khomeini,
> > deci va proceda exact ca el.
> > 
> > 
> > La 2005-08-11 03:08:10, Mos Grigore a scris:
> > 
> > > 
> > > PS. Sifiliticii astia sinucigasi au FOST INVENTAZI ACOLO. Cind am sa
> > > am ceva de scanat diapozitive am sa-tii arat la defilare: mii de copii
> > > si batrini! 
> > > 
> 

Oriana
2005-08-11 14:31:37

facut un file cu cele 20 de cearsafuri, nu se poate altfel

trebuia sa faca un rezumat pe puncte, cine are rabdarea sa citeasca asa un pomelnic, direct pe forum?



La 2005-08-11 04:23:36, Phil a scris:

> unu Dan Bostan care a intins 20 de cearceafuri, sint curios daca
> cineva le-a citit pe toate, poate doar vedeta noastra Kkaty care tot
> nu ar intelege ceva pt ca este prea inteligenta.
> 

PANTAGRUEL
2005-08-11 16:18:21

Printul Persiei

este un joc video de mare succes. Persia ne-a dat covoare persane, pisici si sah. Dar atentie, cand Ceausescu s-a dus la ayatolah,atunci i s-a infundat. Se dusese el si pe la Ariamer sa-i vanda tractoare dar i s-a infundat aluia.Pana sa vina noul presedinte chiar se facusera si niste filme bune, unul cu un refugiat politic afgan. Pe scurt, tara are potential cultural si istoric, ingropat insa sub austerul val ayatolahin.Saddam a vrut sa le-o traga in barba dar n-a reusit.Vor fi imposibil de cucerit decat daca si de aici titlul comentariului se va naste un nou print al Persiei sa le redea libertatea.

geek-a-contra
2005-08-11 16:28:20

da' unde-i....

..lucidul sa ne lamureasca ce si cum cu centrifugile....?

Oriana
2005-08-11 17:59:50

Printul Persiei?

stiam de fiul sahului, Reza, dar mi se improbabila treaba asta, uiti ca de la instaurarea lui Jhomeini au avut timp bereket ca sa-si infiltreze toti imbacsitii in toate punctele nevralgice instituzionale- e ca o Piovra, cu tentacule peste tot, greu de zmuls.

Ei de fapt sunt persani, cum bine subliniezi, se considera superiori arabilor ca civilizatie, dar Khomeini le-a intors pe dos toata credinta si din epoca de piatra unde i-a trimis, greu se mai revine la civilizatie, fie cu interneturile lor peste tot si centralele lor atomice- nu le are si Pakistan?, si cum traiesc majoritatea pakistanilor?

La 2005-08-11 16:18:21, PANTAGRUEL a scris:

> este un joc video de mare succes. Persia ne-a dat covoare persane,
> pisici si sah. Dar atentie, cand Ceausescu s-a dus la ayatolah,atunci
> i s-a infundat. Se dusese el si pe la Ariamer sa-i vanda tractoare dar
> i s-a infundat aluia.Pana sa vina noul presedinte chiar se facusera si
> niste filme bune, unul cu un refugiat politic afgan. Pe scurt, tara
> are potential cultural si istoric, ingropat insa sub austerul val
> ayatolahin.Saddam a vrut sa le-o traga in barba dar n-a reusit.Vor fi
> imposibil de cucerit decat daca si de aici titlul comentariului se va
> naste un nou print al Persiei sa le redea libertatea.
> 

Mos Grigore
2005-08-11 18:00:13

Ca vorbeam de China (1)

U.S. report warns of China sub threat

By Michael Kilian Washington Bureau

Little noticed by the public, a just-released Pentagon report to Congress carries a strong warning that China's rapidly expanding and improving submarine fleet poses a mounting military threat to the United States.

The end of the Cold War left the United States the world's supreme naval power, and the Pentagon, occupied with wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, has shifted its priorities away from seaborne threats in recent years.

The Pentagon has even diverted components of its anti-submarine warfare arm to other purposes.

China, though still well behind the U.S. in terms of the strength of its submarine fleet, has turned to an undersea vessel that American planners had considered largely obsolete--the diesel-electric attack submarine--to boost its arsenal. And it is equipping its submarines with new technology from Germany and elsewhere to make the craft harder to detect and more lethal than ever before.

Experts predict that China's submarine fleet will substantially outnumber that of the U.S. within the next 15 years.

As the Pentagon report, delivered to Congress last month, says, the new Chinese navy is a force designed mostly to prevent or dissuade the U.S. from intervening in a conflict between China and Taiwan. But it also is giving China the capability of menacing Japan and striking U.S. cities with submarine-launched nuclear missiles from far out in the Pacific.

"China is in the midst of perhaps the largest military buildup the world has witnessed since the end of the Cold War," Richard Fisher, vice president of Washington's International Assessment and Strategy Center, a national security think tank, said at a recent hearing of the House Armed Services Committee.

John Tkacik Jr., a senior research fellow at the conservative Heritage Foundation, raised a similar alarm.

"China's ambitious weapons modernization and reforms in military doctrine are aimed at promoting vast increases in its comprehensive national power," Tkacik told the House committee. He said the Pentagon report is "a wake-up call to the administration, to Congress, to the Taiwan government and to our friends and allies in the Asia-Pacific region that . . . China stands poised to assert itself as the pre-eminent power in the Asia-Pacific region."

China appears to be strengthening all branches of its military--improving training and weaponry for its huge army, increasing its short- and long-range ballistic missiles, adding new aircraft and precision munitions to its air force and developing unmanned aircraft, the report said.

But submarines have become a high priority. China has about 64 surface warships in its navy and 55 or more attack submarines, designed for use against enemy surface ships and submarines as well as ground targets.

These not only include its current Song-class sub, armed with anti-ship cruise missiles that can be launched underwater, but a new Yuan diesel-electric attack sub as well. China also is expected to introduce a nuclear attack submarine this year and has bought four highly capable Russian Kilo-class attack submarines with eight more on order from the Russian military.

In contrast, Taiwan has just 27 surface warships and four submarines.

U.S. fleet of 59 attack subs

The U.S. has a fleet of 59 attack submarines of all classes but, as experts have noted, has commitments for them all over the world.

At current attrition and replacement rates, experts estimate the U.S. attack fleet will be down to 40 submarines or fewer within the next 15 years, while China expands its fleet by perhaps 35 modern subs.

Another great leap forward in Chinese attack submarine capability has been the introduction of "air-independent propulsion" technology to its attack force.

According to Lt. Cmdr. Bill Murray, a veteran submarine officer now serving as an associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College, AIP technology has transformed the diesel-electric sub into an ultrastealthy, state-of-the-art ship-killing weapon.

Nuclear subs are quieter than diesels, but attack subs running on batteries are quieter still.

"When they're on battery, they're incredibly difficult to find," Murray said. "So, unless you know where they are, they could be anywhere, which complicates the United States' or any opposing navy's ability to operate on the surface."

Mos Grigore
2005-08-11 18:01:28

Ca vorbeam de China (2)

According to Lyle Goldstein, another Naval War College expert, diesel-electric subs have been able to operate for only two or three days on batteries, having to resurface to recharge them. With AIP, the submarine carries its own air supply, as it might extra fuel, and can recharge its batteries while deep underwater and stay submerged for two or more weeks.

"I don't think anybody really knows how far the Chinese are along with it, but we've found some very disturbing signs," Goldstein said.

According to Goldstein and Murray, the Chinese acquired much of their AIP technology from Germany. They emphasized that their assessments are their own and not official views of the Naval War College or the Navy.

All American submarines are nuclear; the Navy has no diesel-electric attack craft. Last fall, the Swedish government leased the Navy the use of one of its AIP-equipped diesel-electric vessels and crew so American anti-submarine warfare forces could train against the wider-ranging submarine tactics AIP makes possible.

As the Pentagon report on China observed, the U.S. has emphasized capability over quantity in maintaining its submarine fleet. But numbers give the Chinese certain advantages.

"Numbers matter," Murray said. "The Chinese obviously believe that numbers matter because they're turning out submarines like sausages. The Chinese are definitely on the winning end of an arms race."

Though the collapse of the Soviet Union decreased the need for the nuclear submarine as a globally deployed, second-strike nuclear deterrent, the U.S. underwater fleet still is spread worldwide as part of a strategy of projecting force on all oceans and major seas. That mission includes protection of the United States' wide-ranging carrier battle groups.

China is showing its new emphasis in other ways. It traditionally has been so focused on its army and ground warfare that for decades it had army generals commanding both its air force and navy. The new navy commander, Zhang Dingfa, is a navy admiral and veteran submarine officer.

Capitol Hill reaction

Alarm over the Chinese buildup is spreading on Capitol Hill. House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) argued that this was no time to cut back the size of the U.S. attack sub fleet or to close the Navy submarine base at Groton, Conn., as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has recommended.

"The best anti-submarine weapon is another submarine," Hunter said.

The Pentagon report on Chinese military power assessed its submarine buildup as part of a coercive effort to persuade Taiwan that "the price of declaring independence is too high" and that naval action against Taiwan might include a blockade or outright attack.

"They want to deter us from interfering if they feel they have to use force to deter Taiwan [from independence], raising the potential cost [in sunk ships and casualties] of U.S. intervention to such a high degree that they think we will calculate we can't defend Taiwan without paying an exorbitant cost," Murray said.

Although Rumsfeld has raised concerns about China's military buildup, he has continued to state publicly that he believes the Taiwan dispute will be settled through peaceful negotiation.

"Our position with respect to Taiwan and the People's Republic of China hasn't changed in years," he said at a news briefing last month. "Our view is that whatever changes are to be made in that connection should be made on a peaceful basis by both countries."

"You judge military threat in two ways," said Marine Corps Gen. Peter Pace, who becomes chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff next month. "There're lots of countries in the world that have the capacity to wage war. Very few have the intent to do so. And clearly, we have a complex but good relationship with China. So there's absolutely no reason for us to believe there's any intent on their part."

"On the contrary," Tkacik said. "The Pentagon report shows that there is every reason to believe that China intends either to coerce Taiwan or to attack it. There is no third option."

geek-a-contra
2005-08-11 18:17:58

Re: so what?

sua are resurse tehnologice si financiare superioare, nu? sa-si faca si america submarine AIP in ritmul in care fac hotdogs.....


La 2005-08-11 18:01:28, Mos Grigore a scris:

> According to Lyle Goldstein, another Naval War College expert,
> diesel-electric subs have been able to operate for only two or three
> days on batteries, having to resurface to recharge them. With AIP,
> the submarine carries its own air supply, as it might extra fuel, and
> can recharge its batteries while deep underwater and stay submerged
> for two or more weeks.
> 
> "I don't think anybody really knows how far the Chinese are along
> with it, but we've found some very disturbing signs," Goldstein
> said.
> 
> According to Goldstein and Murray, the Chinese acquired much of their
> AIP technology from Germany. They emphasized that their assessments
> are their own and not official views of the Naval War College or the
> Navy.
> 
> All American submarines are nuclear; the Navy has no diesel-electric
> attack craft. Last fall, the Swedish government leased the Navy the
> use of one of its AIP-equipped diesel-electric vessels and crew so
> American anti-submarine warfare forces could train against the
> wider-ranging submarine tactics AIP makes possible.
> 
> As the Pentagon report on China observed, the U.S. has emphasized
> capability over quantity in maintaining its submarine fleet. But
> numbers give the Chinese certain advantages.
> 
> "Numbers matter," Murray said. "The Chinese obviously
> believe that numbers matter because they're turning out submarines
> like sausages. The Chinese are definitely on the winning end of an
> arms race."
> 
> Though the collapse of the Soviet Union decreased the need for the
> nuclear submarine as a globally deployed, second-strike nuclear
> deterrent, the U.S. underwater fleet still is spread worldwide as
> part of a strategy of projecting force on all oceans and major seas.
> That mission includes protection of the United States' wide-ranging
> carrier battle groups.
> 
> China is showing its new emphasis in other ways. It traditionally has
> been so focused on its army and ground warfare that for decades it
> had army generals commanding both its air force and navy. The new
> navy commander, Zhang Dingfa, is a navy admiral and veteran submarine
> officer.
> 
> Capitol Hill reaction
> 
> Alarm over the Chinese buildup is spreading on Capitol Hill. House
> Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) argued
> that this was no time to cut back the size of the U.S. attack sub
> fleet or to close the Navy submarine base at Groton, Conn., as
> Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has recommended.
> 
> "The best anti-submarine weapon is another submarine,"
> Hunter said.
> 
> The Pentagon report on Chinese military power assessed its submarine
> buildup as part of a coercive effort to persuade Taiwan that
> "the price of declaring independence is too high" and that
> naval action against Taiwan might include a blockade or outright
> attack.
> 
> "They want to deter us from interfering if they feel they have to
> use force to deter Taiwan [from independence], raising the potential
> cost [in sunk ships and casualties] of U.S. intervention to such a
> high degree that they think we will calculate we can't defend Taiwan
> without paying an exorbitant cost," Murray said.
> 
> Although Rumsfeld has raised concerns about China's military buildup,
> he has continued to state publicly that he believes the Taiwan
> dispute will be settled through peaceful negotiation.
> 
> "Our position with respect to Taiwan and the People's Republic of
> China hasn't changed in years," he said at a news briefing last
> month. "Our view is that whatever changes are to be made in that
> connection should be made on a peaceful basis by both countries."
> 
> 
> "You judge military threat in two ways," said Marine Corps
> Gen. Peter Pace, who becomes chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
> next month. "There're lots of countries in the world that have
> the capacity to wage war. Very few have the intent to do so. And
> clearly, we have a complex but good relationship with China. So
> there's absolutely no reason for us to believe there's any intent on
> their part."
> 
> "On the contrary," Tkacik said. "The Pentagon report
> shows that there is every reason to believe that China intends either
> to coerce Taiwan or to attack it. There is no third option."
> 
> 
> 

Oriana
2005-08-11 18:30:05

Re: Ca vorbeam de China (2) si ipotetica invazie a Taiwanului

le trebuie doar un pretext si o infuleca imediat


La 2005-08-11 18:01:28, Mos Grigore a scris:

> According to Lyle Goldstein, another Naval War College expert,
> diesel-electric subs have been able to operate for only two or three
> days on batteries, having to resurface to recharge them. With AIP,
> the submarine carries its own air supply, as it might extra fuel, and
> can recharge its batteries while deep underwater and stay submerged
> for two or more weeks.
> 
> "I don't think anybody really knows how far the Chinese are along
> with it, but we've found some very disturbing signs," Goldstein
> said.
> 
> According to Goldstein and Murray, the Chinese acquired much of their
> AIP technology from Germany. They emphasized that their assessments
> are their own and not official views of the Naval War College or the
> Navy.
> 
> All American submarines are nuclear; the Navy has no diesel-electric
> attack craft. Last fall, the Swedish government leased the Navy the
> use of one of its AIP-equipped diesel-electric vessels and crew so
> American anti-submarine warfare forces could train against the
> wider-ranging submarine tactics AIP makes possible.
> 
> As the Pentagon report on China observed, the U.S. has emphasized
> capability over quantity in maintaining its submarine fleet. But
> numbers give the Chinese certain advantages.
> 
> "Numbers matter," Murray said. "The Chinese obviously
> believe that numbers matter because they're turning out submarines
> like sausages. The Chinese are definitely on the winning end of an
> arms race."
> 
> Though the collapse of the Soviet Union decreased the need for the
> nuclear submarine as a globally deployed, second-strike nuclear
> deterrent, the U.S. underwater fleet still is spread worldwide as
> part of a strategy of projecting force on all oceans and major seas.
> That mission includes protection of the United States' wide-ranging
> carrier battle groups.
> 
> China is showing its new emphasis in other ways. It traditionally has
> been so focused on its army and ground warfare that for decades it
> had army generals commanding both its air force and navy. The new
> navy commander, Zhang Dingfa, is a navy admiral and veteran submarine
> officer.
> 
> Capitol Hill reaction
> 
> Alarm over the Chinese buildup is spreading on Capitol Hill. House
> Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.) argued
> that this was no time to cut back the size of the U.S. attack sub
> fleet or to close the Navy submarine base at Groton, Conn., as
> Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has recommended.
> 
> "The best anti-submarine weapon is another submarine,"
> Hunter said.
> 
> The Pentagon report on Chinese military power assessed its submarine
> buildup as part of a coercive effort to persuade Taiwan that
> "the price of declaring independence is too high" and that
> naval action against Taiwan might include a blockade or outright
> attack.
> 
> "They want to deter us from interfering if they feel they have to
> use force to deter Taiwan [from independence], raising the potential
> cost [in sunk ships and casualties] of U.S. intervention to such a
> high degree that they think we will calculate we can't defend Taiwan
> without paying an exorbitant cost," Murray said.
> 
> Although Rumsfeld has raised concerns about China's military buildup,
> he has continued to state publicly that he believes the Taiwan
> dispute will be settled through peaceful negotiation.
> 
> "Our position with respect to Taiwan and the People's Republic of
> China hasn't changed in years," he said at a news briefing last
> month. "Our view is that whatever changes are to be made in that
> connection should be made on a peaceful basis by both countries."
> 
> 
> "You judge military threat in two ways," said Marine Corps
> Gen. Peter Pace, who becomes chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
> next month. "There're lots of countries in the world that have
> the capacity to wage war. Very few have the intent to do so. And
> clearly, we have a complex but good relationship with China. So
> there's absolutely no reason for us to believe there's any intent on
> their part."
> 
> "On the contrary," Tkacik said. "The Pentagon report
> shows that there is every reason to believe that China intends either
> to coerce Taiwan or to attack it. There is no third option."
> 
> 
> 

roy
2005-08-11 18:54:58

AL QAEDA'S WOES by Amir Taheri

George W. Bush
2005-08-11 19:30:35

Re: AL QAEDA'S WOES by Amir Taheri

La 2005-08-11 18:54:58, roy a scris:

www.altermedia.info

REVIZIONIST BELGIAN ARESTAT
Clasat in: Noua Ordine Mondiala— @ 8:01 am

(Antwerp) SCRIITORUL revizionist Siegfried Verbeke (foto) a fost arestat miercuri in timp ce se urca la bordul unui avion in aeroportul Schiphol din Amsterdam si ar putea fi extradat in Germania pentru a fi proces.

Un judecator german a remis un mandat international de arestare impotriva lui Verbeke la finele anului trecut, intrucat publicistul si exprimase prin intermediul inernetului scepticismul asupra faptului ca nazistii ar fi ucis chiar 6 milioane de evrei in timpul celui de-al doilea razboi mondial.

Germania a cerut Belgiei extradarea lui Verbeke, insa un judecator belgian a refuzat cererea pe motiv ca dizidentul flamand a fost deja pus sub acuzare de autoritatile din aceasta tara.

Verbeke a fost consecutiv condamnat pentru "rasism" si "negationism", rspectiv punerea sub intrebare a Holocaustului. O curte de apel din Antwerp l-a condamnat la un an de inchisoare si 2.500 euro amenda. In plus, i-au fost suspendate drepturile civile pentru 10 ani.

Verbeke, in varsat de 63 de ani, a fost liderul Centrului pentru cercetari Istorice Libere (Stichting Vrij Historisch Onderzoek, VHO) din 1983. Centrul a publicat numeroase lucrari care trateaza "mitul Holocaustului", adevarate "hartii de turnesol" in testarea libertatii expresiei in Europa. (NSNS, 4 august 2005)(Mihai Surducan)

Va invitam sa vizitati: www.vho.org - cel mai cuprinzator website revizionist

Farimitza Lambru
2005-08-11 19:55:35

Iranului i s-a comis o mare nedreptate !!

Iranul are nevoie de bombe. Iranul tinjeste dupa bombe. Iranul nu mai poate trai fara bombe. Japonia a avut bombe. Iranul de ce sa nu aiba bombe?

Statele Unite trebuie sa repare aceasta mare nedreptate, in regim de urgenta.

George W. Bush
2005-08-11 20:03:45

Re: Iranului i s-a comis o mare nedreptate !!

de dat cu bombe,no problem.
da' daca din greseala,ricoseaza catereva
si in "tara sfanta"? ca tu oricum n-ai treaba.


La 2005-08-11 19:55:35, Farimitza Lambru a scris:

> 
> Iranul are nevoie de bombe. Iranul tinjeste dupa bombe. Iranul nu mai
> poate trai fara bombe. Japonia a avut bombe. Iranul de ce sa nu aiba
> bombe?
> 
> Statele Unite trebuie sa repare aceasta mare nedreptate, in regim de
> urgenta.
> 

Farimitza Lambru
2005-08-11 20:05:10

Re: shu, Bushu

Comentariul asta hodoronc-tronc (da' e bine ca ne arati cu cine votezi, sufletel) seamana cu raspunsul babei Marghioala:
"buna ziua baba chioara" - "da, e seceta, maica".

Sau poate ca Bushushu incearca sa-i tie locul Virginiei Popescu.

George W. Bush
2005-08-11 20:14:00

Re: shu, Bushu

yo-te cum apar primadonele de la haaretz
rapsody,indemnand pa altii,sa le scoata
castanele din foc.canta bre la alta masa.

La 2005-08-11 20:05:10, Farimitza Lambru a scris:

> 
> Comentariul asta hodoronc-tronc (da' e bine ca ne arati cu cine
> votezi, sufletel) seamana cu raspunsul babei Marghioala:
> "buna ziua baba chioara" - "da, e seceta, maica".
> 
> Sau poate ca Bushushu incearca sa-i tie locul Virginiei Popescu.
> 
> 
> 

Farimitza Lambru
2005-08-11 20:20:26

Re: Busher, draga

Israelul are armele lui, vreo doua sute, asa ca nu are nevoie de cele ale americanilor. Poate sa arunce in aer intregul Orient Mijlociu la o adica si atunci ne vom plimba cu totii cu bicicleta, cu tricileta in cazul dumitale, ca dupa pregatire. Eu nu stiu ce te agiti ca stii dumneata ce in caldare, eu am cerut sa se repare nedreptatea si falia dintre Iran si Japonia si sa i se dea Iranului ceea ce Japonia deja a avut si nu mai vrea si acum Iranul cere cu indirjire si va avea. Cum scrie la Biblie: bate si ti se va deschide, cere si ti se va da.

ionion
2005-08-11 20:21:43

Daaaaa, Iranului i s-a produs o mare nedreptate ! N-a fost arestat la timp Homeinii ! scurt pe doi !

.

George W. Bush
2005-08-11 20:43:32

Re: Busher, draga...lambrovici..

daca tot sunteti atat de tari in vezica,dece nu
le-o trageti voi?nu-i mai bagati pa fraierii de
europeni la inaintare.cat despre plimbatu'
cu bicicleta,ma cam indoiesc.cred ca mai
degraba practicarea inotului,ar fi mai utila.
ce-i drept,cam anevoie sa inoti c-o mana
si cu biblia in cealalta.da mai sti?


La 2005-08-11 20:20:26, Farimitza Lambru a scris:

> 
> Israelul are armele lui, vreo doua sute, asa ca nu are nevoie de cele
> ale americanilor. Poate sa arunce in aer intregul Orient Mijlociu la
> o adica si atunci ne vom plimba cu totii cu bicicleta, cu tricileta
> in cazul dumitale, ca dupa pregatire. Eu nu stiu ce te agiti ca stii
> dumneata ce in caldare, eu am cerut sa se repare nedreptatea si falia
> dintre Iran si Japonia si sa i se dea Iranului ceea ce Japonia deja a
> avut si nu mai vrea si acum Iranul cere cu indirjire si va avea. Cum
> scrie la Biblie: bate si ti se va deschide, cere si ti se va da.
> 

Mos Grigore
2005-08-11 20:45:51

Hoops, mai gasiram si tot de acolo!

Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

Thu Aug 11, 1:50 AM ET



An Oklahoma man was taken into custody after he tried to carry a bomb on board an airplane on Wednesday in Oklahoma City, an FBI spokesman said.

Charles Alfred Dreyling Jr., 24, was detained on Wednesday morning after a security screener using an X-ray machine saw the device in his luggage as he tried to board a flight to Philadelphia at Will Rogers Airport in Oklahoma City.

"Although the investigation is in its initial stages we have found no apparent connection to any type of terrorist activity or group," FBI spokesman Gary Johnson said.

Johnson said the screener saw an "improvised explosive device" in Dreyling's carry-on luggage.

A woman answering the phone at Dreyling's home on Wednesday night declined to discuss the matter.

Johnson said Dreyling would be charged in federal court on Thursday with possession of an explosive device at an airport.

Ratacitul
2005-08-11 21:02:50

Re: Hoops, mai gasiram si tot de acolo!

Si unde spuneai ca are ceva apa?

La 2005-08-11 20:45:51, Mos Grigore a scris:

> Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb
> 
> Thu Aug 11, 1:50 AM ET
> 
> 
> 
> An Oklahoma man was taken into custody after he tried to carry a bomb
> on board an airplane on Wednesday in Oklahoma City, an FBI spokesman
> said.
> 
> Charles Alfred Dreyling Jr., 24, was detained on Wednesday morning
> after a security screener using an X-ray machine saw the device in
> his luggage as he tried to board a flight to Philadelphia at Will
> Rogers Airport in Oklahoma City.
> 
> "Although the investigation is in its initial stages we have
> found no apparent connection to any type of terrorist activity or
> group," FBI spokesman Gary Johnson said.
> 
> Johnson said the screener saw an "improvised explosive
> device" in Dreyling's carry-on luggage.
> 
> A woman answering the phone at Dreyling's home on Wednesday night
> declined to discuss the matter.
> 
> Johnson said Dreyling would be charged in federal court on Thursday
> with possession of an explosive device at an airport.
> 
> 
> 

the witness
2005-08-11 22:28:04

Re: PETROL contra URANIU !!! Asa poate mai scade si pretul barilului....

La 2005-08-11 19:55:35, Farimitza Lambru a scris:

>
> Iranul are nevoie de bombe. Iranul tinjeste dupa bombe. Iranul nu mai
> poate trai fara bombe. Japonia a avut bombe. Iranul de ce sa nu aiba
> bombe?
>
> Statele Unite trebuie sa repare aceasta mare nedreptate, in regim de
> urgenta.
>

Dan Bostan
2005-08-11 23:01:41

Val-schmuck

Did you try the site today, schmuck?